Sideswipe Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 ${1} Has anyone seen this video? The RAF pilot claims that they completely beat the USN pilots in a 4 v 4 engagement 3 days in a row 4 to 0 in close air combat. This seems pretty questionable to me, but there were a lot of details left out. He doesn't go into if the pilots were new, what the ROE was, or what the aircraft load outs were. He also says they ignored the long range air combat because weren't a match for the AIM-54. Anyone care to speculate about what happened here? Also, I'm sure you guys are well aware, if you dare to wade into the comment section there's the same old misinformed song and dance that "The F-14 was never designed for dog fighting..." by people claiming to be correcting the "misinformation from Top Gun". Talk to all you "Cool Cats" later!
Fri13 Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 Has anyone seen this video? The RAF pilot claims that they completely beat the USN pilots in a 4 v 4 engagement 3 days in a row 4 to 0 in close air combat. This seems pretty questionable to me, but there were a lot of details left out. He doesn't go into if the pilots were new, what the ROE was, or what the aircraft load outs were. He also says they ignored the long range air combat because weren't a match for the AIM-54. I get the opposite view for that, sounds pretty trustworthy as it was tactics vs gear. And that is what I have been saying, you can't take a tactic and stick to it and fly it by expecting the enemy is exactly as the theory say, instead you need to be fluid in tactics, change them on the fly and adapt quickly to new things and do things that you shouldn't do just to throw a other off. We don't get to do that in simulators as we don't have anywhere near realistic G-force effects or limitations to fly and operate. So players are just flying air quake and... think it is real deal. i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S. i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K.
will- Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 [YOUTUBE] [/YOUTUBE] Has anyone seen this video? The RAF pilot claims that they completely beat the USN pilots in a 4 v 4 engagement 3 days in a row 4 to 0 in close air combat. This seems pretty questionable to me, but there were a lot of details left out. He doesn't go into if the pilots were new, what the ROE was, or what the aircraft load outs were. He also says they ignored the long range air combat because weren't a match for the AIM-54. Anyone care to speculate about what happened here? Also, I'm sure you guys are well aware, if you dare to wade into the comment section there's the same old misinformed song and dance that "The F-14 was never designed for dog fighting..." by people claiming to be correcting the "misinformation from Top Gun". Talk to all you "Cool Cats" later! most of you questions are answered in the first min of the video actually. Intel i9-9900K 32GB DDR4, RTX 2080tiftw3, Windows 10, 1tb 970 M2, TM Warthog, 4k 144hz HDR g-sync.
Sideswipe Posted March 18, 2018 Author Posted March 18, 2018 most of you questions are answered in the first min of the video actually. None of them were.
RED Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 (edited) He says that they lost to the USN aircraft the year before. The difficult part of air combat is to keep the SA of every pilot high. Good communication and good training help with that a lot. Unlike most of the time in DCS in reality nobody flies into combat alone. That's why there are SEM tactics and SEM training for example. If you are bad at that it doesn't matter if you fly F-14 or a Hawk - you can't make a use of your advantage. People love to discuss about which plane is faster and similar. They often ignore how much knowledge and skills you need to get the maximum performance out of these jets. The Hawks were able to bind 2 enemies each in a long BFM fight so that the Tornados were free. The USN pilots needed too long to kill the student pilots in their Hawks (most likely with a well trained IP in the back). And in conclusion the Tornados can take a nice shot from outside the fight (he tells how he looked them up in the video). They also used different tactics and initial formations every time so that the USN pilots could not pick their targets and end up with the Hawks in their face "like a Jack Russel Terrier". Edited March 18, 2018 by RED Spelling ;)
Sideswipe Posted March 18, 2018 Author Posted March 18, 2018 He doesn't say they were student pilots. The tactics of the USN pilots is questionable. Why would all 4 go after 2 leaving the other 2 free to do their own thing? Seems like a basic tactical error, which they again repeated the following day. The only thing different in the formations he says was the distance between the aircraft. Then for the Tornados to fire from outside the fight would need long range missiles, but the Tomcats didn't use Phoenixes.
Alicatt Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 In the first 30 seconds he tells you that they went out to Akrotiri in Cyprus with a detachment from the Tornado OCU or Operational Conversion Unit, that's the Squadron you go to train to use your new aircraft after finishing your basic fighter training in the likes of the Hawk, so yes they are still students. At the 2 minute mark he informs you that they went out with a detachment of students in 1990 with Hawks and Tornados. Sons of Dogs, Come Eat Flesh Clan Cameron
RaceFuel85 Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 Basically the Hawks mixed it up with the Tomcats and the F3’s shot them with a fix one and ran away. Note this is unsubstantiated, AKAIK, beyond this one pilot talking about it. This is roughly in the same category as the Russians claiming secret DACT victories against Langley Eagles in 92/93 and virtually everything the Indian Air Force says about everything
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