tmdgm Posted March 9, 2007 Posted March 9, 2007 I'm trying to dogfight in an F-15 with Aim7's. However, it seems like you can't turn more than say 30 deg away from the bandit and you lose missile lock? Seems like with Su-27, you can turn almost 90 degrees and still maintain lock. Seems very easy to lose lock.
Pilotasso Posted March 9, 2007 Posted March 9, 2007 No, Sparrow in the F-15 is one of the very few things that are actualy better than the real thing. IRL indeed you cannot fire the Sparrow outside certain limits but in lomac it can be fired almost off boresight. It fills the gap left by the totaly innefective AIM-9 Sidwinder (Wich is a shame because its a nice missile and in LOMAC it falls short after just 2 miles). What will break lock is a sudden aspect change, notch or chaff release by the target. .
Kula66 Posted March 9, 2007 Posted March 9, 2007 No, Sparrow in the F-15 is one of the very few things that are actualy better than the real thing. And what was it's kill ratio in GW1? Do you think the AA-10 would be better in RL or worse?
jurinko Posted March 9, 2007 Posted March 9, 2007 Do you think the AA-10 would be better in RL or worse? I read somewhere that in Ethiopia-Eritrea conflict where Ethiopian Su-27s fought the Eritrean MiG-29s with russian pilots/mercenaries at the stick on both sides, their BWR rockets performed poorly and the fight ended in WVR.
olli Posted March 9, 2007 Posted March 9, 2007 No, Sparrow in the F-15 is one of the very few things that are actualy better than the real thing. IRL indeed you cannot fire the Sparrow outside certain limits but in lomac it can be fired almost off boresight. It fills the gap left by the totaly innefective AIM-9 Sidwinder (Wich is a shame because its a nice missile and in LOMAC it falls short after just 2 miles). Thats interesting... never tried the Sparrow for Dogfight. So u use it in Vertical Scan or Boresight Mode? Whats about Flood Mode? Enemy won't get Lock or Launch Indication, will he?
GGTharos Posted March 9, 2007 Posted March 9, 2007 I use the 9 in a dogfight, and I can off-bore it a good 30 deg quite successfully. There's only one way a sparrow won't produce a warning: HoJ Shot. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Prophet Posted March 9, 2007 Posted March 9, 2007 Flood mode gives lock warning the minute you put him in the circle. But it is still a very effective mode.
S77th-konkussion Posted March 9, 2007 Posted March 9, 2007 And what was it's kill ratio in GW1? Do you think the AA-10 would be better in RL or worse? I hope it's better.. :doh: [sIGPIC]http://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=43337&d=1287169113[/sIGPIC]
GGTharos Posted March 9, 2007 Posted March 9, 2007 The modern sparrow was about as dangerous as an AMRAAM seeker-wise, Kula, with the exception of having to hold lock. A lot of Sparrow shots in GW1 were taken at extreme parameters (Rmax tail-chases) which yielded an approximate 36% Pk. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Kula66 Posted March 9, 2007 Posted March 9, 2007 GGT, Thats what I'm saying ... by GW1, Sparrow was a good missile when used within parameters.
tmdgm Posted March 10, 2007 Author Posted March 10, 2007 I guess it's not the sparrow I'm questioning. It's the F-15's radar and ability to keep a lock. For example, I'm facing the enemy and have lock, I turn maybe 30-40 degrees, anything beyond I lose lock. In an Su-27, seems like I can turn almost 80 degrees and still maintain lock. Maybe I'm missing something.
ViperEagle Posted March 10, 2007 Posted March 10, 2007 In large part, the failure of the Sparrow in Vietnam was due to the Phantoms comparitively poor radar and electronics for Vietnam and it's conditions. However, as stated, alot of the GW1 Sparrow shots were at the extreme edge of the envelope. While obsolete, it was and is still one of the most successful AAMs in history.
GGTharos Posted March 10, 2007 Posted March 10, 2007 There are a few issues with the radar, yes, but typically it doesn't just randomly drop lock - usually there's a reason for it, such as sudden aspect changes or jamming, or notching. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
tmdgm Posted March 10, 2007 Author Posted March 10, 2007 I gotta admit, I haven't tried turning abeam of the bandit without firing the sparrow. Maybe I lose lock because of evasive maneuvers or chaff. I'll try to see how far off I can keep radar lock on the F-15. Although, it still seems like I can't turn that far away without losing lock compared to other planes. I'll check it out.
tmdgm Posted March 10, 2007 Author Posted March 10, 2007 Ok, I just admit. I suck at this game. This isn't fun anymore. Gotta admit, never been so frustrated by a game/sim. I haven't survived one mission yet. No, wait there was that one. A-10, F-15, Su -27 don't matter. I've watched the tutorials. No go. This just plain old blankety blank sucks!! Sorry, I just needed to vent before I break my joystick and among other things. I HATE THIS blankety blank GAME!!!!!!! There, I feel better. Now back to it. :pilotfly:
GGTharos Posted March 10, 2007 Posted March 10, 2007 LOL! :D It takes practice :) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
tmdgm Posted March 10, 2007 Author Posted March 10, 2007 Whew, glad you have a sense of humor. I was really peeved. Still am. There's definitely been enough of practice. Just wish I could start getting better. It ain't much fun when you never, and I mean never, survive. I do alright on 1 vs 1, but anything more than that and forget about it.
GGTharos Posted March 10, 2007 Posted March 10, 2007 you shouldn't want to be in a Xv1 with X>1. If you are, keep your distance. If you're in that situation and you're not an F-15 or in general armed with ARH, you should not be expecting to survive. Eithe way, dodging missiles requires some violent maneuvering. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
RvETito Posted March 10, 2007 Posted March 10, 2007 Whew, glad you have a sense of humor. I was really peeved. Still am. There's definitely been enough of practice. Just wish I could start getting better. It ain't much fun when you never, and I mean never, survive. I do alright on 1 vs 1, but anything more than that and forget about it. Sounds like you are flying Lock-On with a lot of passion. Never lose it. Keep it going, it's the only way to get better. About your problem- are saying you fight WVR multiple bandits with the AIM-7? If so, no wonder you don't live long enough. Use fire-and-forget missiles(AIM-9/120), after all you're flying the F-15;). "See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89. =RvE=
Kula66 Posted March 11, 2007 Posted March 11, 2007 I guess it's not the sparrow I'm questioning. It's the F-15's radar and ability to keep a lock. For example, I'm facing the enemy and have lock, I turn maybe 30-40 degrees, anything beyond I lose lock. In an Su-27, seems like I can turn almost 80 degrees and still maintain lock. Maybe I'm missing something. Something just occured to me ... how are you measuring that 30-40degrees? By the scope or by an external view? If its the scope, remember its a B-scan which distorts everything! James
tmdgm Posted March 11, 2007 Author Posted March 11, 2007 Nope, it's external view. Just seems like you lose lock quicker with the F-15. Maybe it's just me. What kills me is when I fire 2 missiles and they both miss. Then I'm screwed as he just fires off missile after missile and I can't get another one off. If my first 1 of 2 hit, I'm ok. If they miss, which they do alot, then it's over.
GGTharos Posted March 11, 2007 Posted March 11, 2007 External view is distorted and not good for angle determination. Do NOT fight from external view. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
jurinko Posted March 11, 2007 Posted March 11, 2007 The dogfight scene in the movie "Angels" sums this pretty up. F-15 fires a missile - Su-33 chaffs and yanks a bit - the missile misses - F-15 fires second missile - Su-33 flares and yanks a bit - the missile misses - and while chaffing, yanking and flaring, the Su-33 gets easily from defensive into the firing position, fires a single missile. End of fight.
Kula66 Posted March 11, 2007 Posted March 11, 2007 External view is distorted and not good for angle determination. Do NOT fight from external view. Hmmm ... theres a great paper over on SimHQ written by a pilot who makes a good argument to the contrary ... Outside views are best for judging angles and rates of turn, positional advantage etc ... The only problem is its banned on most servers .... so don't get used to it!
tmdgm Posted March 11, 2007 Author Posted March 11, 2007 Sorry, misunderstood when you said external. I use external once in a while, but all my gameplay is from internal. I thought you meant visual vs using the screen on the the left (can't remember the name, HDD maybe). Gotta admit, I did try a mission or two from external, and avoiding missiles did seem easier.
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