Just my $0.02 on ECM Blinking

[Rhen]

I've not voiced any opinion on threads addressing this issue for several reasons:

1) I don't want to give up any classified information

2) I needed to look around the internet for something I could say - if it's in the public domain, I can say it, but I can neither confirm or deny what I'm saying is true. :lol:

3) I don't fly online much except with the guys I like.

 

DISCLAIMER: :noexpression: The following information is given out as my opinion on things that may or may not be true as I can neither confirm the plausibility, reliability or usage of any methods, tactics, techniques I'm mentioning. I merely point out that these techniques exist and are stated in websites carrying RELIABLE AND ACCURATE information on any topics discussed. These topics and OPINIONS do not necessarily reflect the views of the USAF or anyone currently or previously associated with them. They are solely my own views - take them or leave them, I don't give a rat's ass.

 

Guess what? We use ECM blinking! :huh: Now I'm not a noob when it comes to ACBT, as some of you know. So you may wonder why I use it. Well let's get something straight first.

 

I'm not talking about a 3,000 Hz blinker who does this to become invisible in LOMAC. I'm talking about using ECM to deny lock, break lock, or trash a missile solution.

 

There's several types of ECM techniques, and the ones who've taken the time to actually do some research FROM REPUTABLE SOURCES might have heard of the following techniques for protection jammers:

 

Blinking Noise

Continuous Noise

Doppler Noise

Spot Noise

False Target(s) Generator

Multiple Frequency Repeater

Range Gate Stealer

Repeater Countdown Blink

Stretched Pulse

Velocity Gate Stealer

Vertical Polarization

Terrain Bounce... and many, MANY more techniques including those generated by aircraft in formation blinking their jammers in an asynchronous (not as effective) to syncronous (more effective) manner.

 

Amazingly enough, as you can see, BLINKING is a technique used. Now it doesn't really matter what the little black box is doing inside your plane or on your pylon. The more important thing is that it does what it's supposed to do. IRL these techniques are used to, as I've said, to deny lock, break lock, or trash a missile solution.

 

Now there's a problem with it as it relates to LOMAC. It's extremely effective, and doesn't reflect the ECCM capabilities of the radars on the launching platform or within the missile(s). Nevertheless it forces behaviors that are effective for training and usage of REAL LIFE tactics.

 

As we all know, the Pk of missiles in LOMAC SUCK compared to their real life counterparts. At least for certain missiles. For others, they're overly optimistic (that, believe it or not, I don't really mind, as I'll point out). If all the missiles were slightly overmodelled, then I'd be a happy camper. Why? Because IRL we respect the hell outa any missile guiding on my priceless ass and the jet I'm flying. We defend against the missile BECAUSE THAT'S THE IMMEDIATE THREAT! We lose that fight & it doesn't matter where the launcing aircraft, his/her wingman, or the ground is at the moment we're converted from a human being to a cloud of blood, bones, and aircraft parts. A little more respect for the missiles is missing in any GAME, but is present in a sim.

 

Now, what's the purpose of using this, what do you guys call it, a technique only used by noobs to get kills. It's to increase the Pk of the missile by getting closer to the adversary and decreasing all the "pole" distances. It causes the fight to be brought to the 12nm/22km distance where the missiles are more deadly, and provides for more realistic tactics usage and realistic missile defense, rather than using cranium-on chaff to trash missiles (chaff works best near the beam NOT nose-to-tail).

 

What we've got in LOMAC is overmodeled countermeasures, undermodeled radars, and missiles. ECM blinking brings the fight closer and allows usage of realistic tactics.

 

But my poor (insert aircraft here) doesn't have it! And you in your F-15 have a slammer! BOO HOO! Burn through in LOMAC is around 12nm/22km so ECM blinking in LOMAC provides no edge within these distances. If you're flying US aircraft you're at a decided disadvantage against an Alamo equipped adversary, as it's modeled in LOMAC anyway, since the ET can reach out and touch you without a launch warning from burn through distances, and the ER in LOMAC is an "arguably" better missile than the Sparrow. That leaves the bite off on chaff Adder and Slammer - not much of a threat to you - so called - expert fighter pilots whining about ECM blinking at ranges greater than 12nm/22km.

 

Personally, I hope more potential adversary countries use LOMAC as their method of training. Why? Because you get a FALSE sense that missiles are weak, countermeasures are strong, and there's nothing in between. Real life, Alice, isn't found through the looking glass of LOMAC. If they (adversary air forces) get the above ideas, then when they try to convert these paradigms to the real world of missiles that hit, and countermeasures that aren't always successful, they'll have to suffer for it.

 

Nothing can simulate real life, but real life. Things, however can be modeled closer to real life by forcing you to behave the way you would IRL, using RL tactics, missile evasion techniques, and weapons employment - along with a healthy respect for the guy who fires a missile at you. While the ECM blinking thing, like any (ok I'll use it here) PC simulation of RL isn't perfect, it suits a need, approximates a technique used IRL, and forces RL tactics. The thing that would make it better is modeling of ECCM - both missile and fire control radar - thus decreasing its effectiveness.

 

Just my opinion, thanks for listening :noexpression:

[EscCtrl]

I'm not talking about a 3,000 Hz blinker who does this to become invisible in LOMAC.

 

I think this is the problem most people are talking about - and it was mentioned on another ECM blinker hater thread that blinking to some extent may have some IRL use as you confirmed.

 

 

I rarely fly online but did so tonight, carried no ECM so not to be accused of anything and managed to fly through the minefield of it in the mountains, score a kill and fly home without a problem.

[GGTharos]

OK everyone start using blinking it's Legal.

 

The only time it was 'illegal' was in your head. There was never a law against it (or for it) save for what you made up ;)

[EscCtrl]

 

I have to google some stuff so I'll have something to talk about.

 

 

Not to get involved in your little discussion but I found that particular quotation amusing :P

[Pilotasso]

Manual blinking is not the same as Simulated blinking is it?

Where is ECCM?

 

But to be honest Im a bit tired of beating a dead horse. Anyone do it at will, it will be soon a thing of the past and youll all become easier targets to me when you dont know to do anything else ;)

[Program2]

Manual blinking is not the same as Simulated blinking is it?

Where is ECCM?

 

But to be honest Im a bit tired of beating a dead horse. Anyone do it at will, it will be soon a thing of the past and youll all become easier targets to me when you dont know to do anything else ;)

 

 

Let's hope the upcoming patch fixes this.

[Pilotasso]

Yup...do it at will. I don't give a rat's ass afterall, since I'm a hog driver and know how to use my 119.

 

You dont fly fighters, not even online, you can make fun of us at will in the distance all day long lol

[Pilotasso]

That's why I said I'll just have to find a way around it, but I won't blink back.

 

 

I wont ruin the game either but on another aproach to this question I also think if Im stuborn enough to keep pouncing on blinkers it gives them double reason to be embarased by the upset after the advantage it gives to no avail. :D

 

Thats the reason why I didnt sucumb to frustration but coming back all the time, its not realistic but it provides some memorable moments! :D

[Crowbar]

I second what Rhen said. If it's real life tactic than use it, simple.

 

Here are just two first google search results I found:

http://stinet.dtic.mil/oai/oai?&verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=ADA132595

http://www.nawcwpns.navy.mil/~pacrange/RANGEWEB/sectio12/sect12a.html

 

 

BTW, I don't fly LOMAC online

 

Cheers :thumbup:

[Pilotasso]

Hmmm...thank you very much, Captain Obvious. I'll use Rugg's reference here, in a most benevolent way. :D Which side of the argument do you fall on, though, Pilotasso? In case I missed your opinion, perhaps you should state it again, just for the record. For the record of my opinion, I hate vulchers!!! But, are they cheating? Hell no!!! Its a war, and the vulching team has obviously established air superiority over my field! It is EXACTLY the goal I have in mind when I strip an airfield of its defenses. If I flew fighters, on-line or otherwise, I can assure you I'd be a bit too overwhelmed to instantly claim that someone blinked in order to kick my ass. So, again, where do you stand, my Portuguese friend?

 

Oh I hate vulchers too, they get the hint Im not the enemy when they realise their targets scream louder than the others. ;)

[A.S]

who cares ...

 

as far what online public servers goes .. if there would be a oppertunity to to disapear and to come back to shit on canopy ppl would also use it.... what not u....excatly u

There is a lil number called score and for this score ppl do everthing

this score stands for wisdom, balls,honor, skills etc etc...

at least it seems to be like that, doesnґt it?

i am already bored bout speaking this...

 

anyways..like ur post and your point of view. (the guy who started)

[hitman]

Yup...do it at will. I don't give a rat's ass afterall, since I'm a hog driver and know how to use my 119. I go on and off really quickly while jinking, so, since nobody has even answered my timing question...I am a cheater. I am ALSO a cheater for using LOPE to mod my A-10 payload to something that is realistic, to my detriment. No excuses though...I am a LOPEr...shame on me!!! I also take advantage of the notch in a look-up situation against a modern fighter. Shame...shame on me. :smartass:

 

I perfer his mod than anyone elses...just cuz its realistic.

[Pilotasso]

But...what happens when you ARE the enemy? Do you keep track of who among them is on-line more often than others? Just wondering...since my activity in Lo-mac seems to be pretty important to you. What's your position on "blinking", BTW, as the uber 1337 Eagle driver in the on-line LOMAC world. Major problem for you? Or minor annoyance?

 

If they are the enemy, if rules allow it, then its my teams fault as a whole, war is war

 

Donne my share of base camping though I avoid taking them on the ground because it tends to build up frustration and loose mission players.

[rogue_blade]

people that complain of blinking are talking like when you hit the e button like this e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e in under 10 seconds?

[hitman]

Its something similar to that, but they use a macro and blink faster than that.

[GGTharos]

They complain about those who do it once every 5 or 10 seconds, too.

[Aeroscout]

Heres my position on it:

 

I Personally don't agree with ECM blinking, but if the server does not have a strict rule against it, then it's obviousally legal. however, do so at your own risk. you'll get a bad online reputation if you do ECM blink.

[Aeroscout]

As you can see, young one, both sides have a point. :smilewink:

 

Young one?! ok, ya i'm just 14. but still...

 

Ya, I was attempting a comprimise there, but i obviously failed at it. :(

 

I read the following posts and i do see your point that both sides have their points. (not the best way to phrase that.) and i'm just trying to help prevent another flame war. (and again, failing at it. :()

[rogue_blade]

They complain about those who do it once every 5 or 10 seconds, too.

 

 

ok well those ppl have a problem

[Aeroscout]

5-10 secs? that's not blinking.

[hitman]

I suck.

[Aeroscout]

Heh...didn't mean to insult you, Aeroscout. I'm just playing off your avatar...you know, with the dude and his green light sword. Tick....tick....tick....OK, I guess I made a bad joke. A flame war will always exist where its meant to be...nothing you do can change that. ;)

 

lol dont worry about it, i'm not insulted. The avitar is from my other online name, jedilink25. I had no other avitar, so i just chose this one. (I know, hardly aproprite for flight sim forums) and it wasn't that bad a joke.

 

I suck.

 

Why?

[Aeroscout]

lmao, ya, thats true. it's just high and low pressure. low pressure does not pull the high twards it. It's the high that pushes it's self twoards the low. so, does that mean that the correct term would be: "blows" (Ha Ha, bad joke.)

[rogue_blade]

5-10 secs? that's not blinking.

 

no i mean those who complain that it is blinking

[Aeroscout]

no i mean those who complain that it is blinking

 

Ya, I know. I was just agreeing. 5-10 seconds is not blinking, and that is not an exscuse for being shot down online.

 

...who could READ." :D

 

don't have too many of them left... *cough GB *cough... :D