Powered Approach!

[Ranchgrom]

First off, great kudos to the whole ED team on a fantastic new module!

But the full flap landing behavior is driving me nuts!

I have flown as Capt. on 2 Boeing and 2 MD airliners, also several business jets from a Lear 24 to the Gulfstream 650 currently. Something is just not right on approach. I understand trimming for an AOA and using power for glidepath control....but when perfectly stabilized, a 1 percent change in LP RPM causes a HUGE increase or decrease of sink rate of 500 fpm or more. That is just not possible....it's like trying to balance a ball on top of an inverted bowl. No aircraft could be so unstable!

Before you all flame me, I work part time at Flight Safety International LGB as a simulator instructor and am deeply involved in simulator testing and certification on a Level D device. I also had a chance to fly the F-18 sim at El Toro M.C.A.S. before it was moved years ago and was able to put in on the carrier deck with just a little coaching.

Something is not right, I hope it gets addressed.

 

Cheers

[Druid_]

Hi, firstly I agree in part with your analysis as it was my first impression also. PAM is something that is actively being looked into and there are a few ideas. One problem is that the aircraft has far to much AoA stability and the rate at which the IAS decays I believe is excessive and may be related to gear drag modelling. This results in escessive stab movement to compensate which is seen by the pilot in pitch movement.

 

One thing I have found with the F18 sim is that you really need to optimise your throttle curves for better top end control. Linear just ends up with tiny throttle movements resulting in large thrust changes. Try setting a curve or making a custom curve.

 

Don't know if you've flown RR engines on EPR where a tiny throttle movement to start taxi = lots of power and then shifted to a GE eng aircraft using N1 where you can move the throttles in a greater range for the same thrust making taxying a GE aircraft far more pleasurable. Setting good curves will greatly assist you from my own experience. I literally went from rapid throttle movements in PAM to much smaller movements to control ROD.

[Svend_Dellepude]

Well, that sentence is what worries me the most. If someone flew the real hornet simulator and feels that the dcs hornet module is too deviated from real behaviour then perhaps ED could take a very very deep look into it.

 

 

Just my two cents.

 

Maybe that's exactly what they are doing right now. Don't think you have anything to worry about.

Early acces, WIP, under development, you know?

It has been stated numerous times in numerous places that they are looking into it.

[Esac_mirmidon]

Druid some example numbers for throttle curves should be very very helpful.

 

Thanks.

[Druid_]

^ Ok will do but I am away with work away from PC. Back tomorrow. Its a large community so was rather hoping another helpful soul would chirp in. I also believe theres a thread or two kicking about on curves for F18 if one can be bothered to search for em.

[discwalker]

Fortunately half-flaps deck landing is a piece of cake. The problem is not the curve of the throttle axis.

[Dejjvid]

Something is fundamentally wrong, but this is EA. I’m 100% sure ED already know about it and we will see many incremental PFM updates during the EA.

[Flyingsix]

Hey dudes. I'm also flying real FBW-Aircraft and worked for many years on avionics. I totally agree with Ranchgrom. Thank you for your analysis.

 

The throttle curve may be a matter of adequate thrust correction in relation of throttle-movement. In my opinion, and if I understood Ranchgrom right he meant the same, the characteristic of the a/c performance in relation of power-setting isn't ok.

 

Commercial pilots are very focused on pitch+power concept. Here we need the constant AOA concept what normally should be more easier than P+P. Nevertheless the aircraft shows a very indifferent behavior. With only a delta of 1% N1 RPM the A/C gives a large feedback. Descent Rates getting high, approach is getting unstable.

 

@Druid: I also made the experience, that the aircraft tries to nail the AOA, what ever happens... The a/c shows the feedback of decreasing speed, with decreasing power.

 

I don't have the big picture of the flight modell...Maybe the trim-controller is working to slow to get the correct STAB position for the present power-setting. Result: A/C has to lower nose (faster than the STAB Movement) to keep energy state and AOA const.... This is what it feels like.

 

But guys - for now its a very nice module. I love to work with it and I'm looking forward for the improvements!

 

Greetz

Edited July 7, 2018 by Flyingsix

[MonnieRock]

^ Ok will do but I am away with work away from PC. Back tomorrow. Its a large community so was rather hoping another helpful soul would chirp in. I also believe theres a thread or two kicking about on curves for F18 if one can be bothered to search for em.

 

Helpful soul chirping in.

 

The following values and settings using the Warthog Throttle AB Detent produces these results on my system:

 

To tune/test:

Enter mission on ground and enable active pause. That way you are static and can adjust and tailor the results. Open the controls overlay to track input.

 

Remember:

There is a weight on wheels idle and in-flight idle. Your control overlay will show about a 10% lag coming off in-flight idle because the idle is a higher RPM value.

 

1) Freshly calibrated Warthog using TM Joystick Calibration tool v1.13

a) Idle: 65535(100%)

b) Detent: 22267(33.98%)

c) Past detent to range limit: 0(0.0%)

2) At sea level with weight on wheels proper idle and no extra travel to move off idle.

3) At sea level with weight on wheels proper 100% RPM at MRT/MIL detent stop

4) At sea level with weight on wheels proper AB once advanced past detent stop

5) Two images below of in game settings.

 

Happy Simming,

Monnie

Edited July 7, 2018 by MonnieRock
wow/in-flight idle

[Druid_]

ok as promised, I have my curves set for more dry thrust control. The curves below will give you small throttle movements to 79% (so minute movements to taxi) then more throttle movement in the 79% to Max dry Thrust. My throttles don't pop into Burner until the last 1/2 inch of movement (I'm not using the Burner detent on my WH).

 

Since I'm mostly using the 80% to 95% range especially for Approach/formation & Air to Air refuelling then with more throttle movement for each % of thrust I have finer control.

 

Disclaimer: This is for a TM WH Throttle with no burner detent set (far too far back in the throttle movement range in my opinion) and is my own personal preference. If you however want finer control in the mid to top end range then this is what I recommend. Fly safe.

[Esac_mirmidon]

Thanks a lot Druid for the feedback.

[DGC338]

See this thread https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=210579&page=12