Su25T in BS and online compability

[vistrel]

Here's what I thought.

 

There will be two groups of people who will own Black Shark:

 

a) Those who bought Lockon + FC + BS

b) Those who bought Lockon + BS

 

Let's say the Black Shark will introduce 1.3 version of the game.

Now how will all those people be able to play in one multiplayer game when some players will have Su25T and others will not ?

 

The answer: in online multiplayer coalition screen the players without FC won't be able to select Su25T to fly but would still be able to see other players who own FC fly it .

 

This is similar to Battlefield 2 when players who own Special Forces addon use SF weapons in vanilla BF2 but people without SF addon cannot unlock them.

 

In other words, for the players without FC addon they will still have SU25T in game but they won't be able to operate it (cockpit, instruments, etc).

 

Hopefully, that makes some sense. :doh:

[britgliderpilot]

That is what the lockon.ru website says.

 

However, until the game's released nobody really knows for sure - it's a big mystery and is inevitably going to be a thorny one to solve.

 

 

Just bear in mind that FC was never compatible with Lockon v1.02 - why would BS be any different?

[vistrel]

Well, this concept works really well in BF2. As a matter of fact, most of vanilla BF2 players did upgrade to Special Forces addon just to have those weapons. From my perspective, it might work well in terms of marketing, and will make BS players life easier by being able to fly in the same version as people without FC addon.

[S77th-konkussion]

Why would anyone see any of that? If you have a different version- you won't be denied plane selection, you'll be denied access to the server! period.

 

I don't know the ins & outs of global marketing of BS but if this was that big an issue- BS will be sold as an addon ONLY.

 

Since so much of this genre's marketing is based in "word of mouth" (forums, etc. like this one) I think the number of people who buy a stand alone version of BS fully expecting it to work with 1.12a/b will be small. Very small.. You'd have to arrive here from living on Mars to not have any idea about how any of this works. Besides- ED should be smart enough to put something on the package disclosing this.

[S77th-konkussion]

Besides- ED should be smart enough to put something on the package disclosing this.

 

Then again.....

 

there was that small "oversight" regarding computer specs, wasn't there... :music_whistling:

[GGTharos]

Then again.....

 

there was that small "oversight" regarding computer specs, wasn't there... :music_whistling:

 

It's just too bad that you mis-spelled Ubisoft ...

[vistrel]

Why would anyone see any of that? If you have a different version- you won't be denied plane selection, you'll be denied access to the server! period.

 

That's the problem I'm trying to highlight. I would want to be able to fly with people who have installed BS without FC.

 

Now I don't think anyone knows yet how the devs will implement this. They will either prevent access to the server itself or Su-25T selection in coalition screen. So I try to advocate the later idea.

 

Also, we don't know yet how the online play will work. Whether the gameplay will include both helicopters and jets in one mission or not.

[EscCtrl]

The solution is easy - everyone goes and buys FC and BS

 

I know I will, and ED are a small team who deserve the money even if you don't plan on flying the 'shark.

[Allochtoon]

In any way, making FC and BS compatible online will degrade the quality of the BS addon significantly. It's like wanting to be able to participate at the same speed with your skelter in a formula 1 race.

 

Unless ofcourse FC get's patched ;)

[GGTharos]

FC and Black Shark cannot be compatible online. There have been new things added to Black Shark which do not exist in FC.

 

Not just new vehicles/objects, but undoubtedly the network code has also changed to accomodate new things etc.

 

 

Q: But, but, you can port it all back to FC?

A: I don't think that's gonna happen.

[vistrel]

I will buy BS 100%. I was referring to people who would get BS skipping the FC.

[GGTharos]

Ah, I see. I couldn't possibly tell you what the plan regarding this is. I'm certain that at some point ED will make a detailed announcement - until then, I would refer you to a post Wags has made previously pertaining to the release of information.

[tflash]

The BIG problem is that if the servers switch, you're invited to buy a helo sim just to be able to continue to play online a2a. Now I don't care a damn about what happens below the clouds, on condition it doesn't ruin my FPS. And to be honest, the more I look at this chopper, the more I think it is as good an FPS as a tank-killer! ;)

[vistrel]

Maybe I am not making myself clear.

 

FC is just a patch (with all the fixes to 1.02 version) + Su25T (which is the main selling point of FC).

 

Let's assume that Black Shark will allow to have online missions where jets and helicopters can be played in one mission. You can either choose jet or a chopper and go by your business. So, I simply want to have one compatible version of BS that will allow players with FC installed or without it to fly at one server with one version. The players without FC won't be able to choose Su25T to fly but they would still be able to fly other jets and choppers.

 

I don't see any reason to not include fixes introduced to jets in FC to Black Shark edition. It's just you won't be able to fly Su-25T without FC.

 

Keep in mind, Black Shark won't be a stand alone game. It will still be an addon to original Lockon (Ubisoft license).

[vistrel]

I think you made yourself very clear. It's clear that you don't understand what Flaming Cliffs is. Is it a patch? Is it an addon?

 

It's the latter. There are completely new systems built into the Su25T that we didn't see before, plus a new plane and it's weapons. That alone precludes it from being a patch.

 

Do you consider SF for BF2 a patch?

 

No, SF is not a patch but you could still use its weapons in vanilla BF2 without seeing SF soldiers there. See what I mean ? Patch fixes all the current planes but does not add new ones. I don't see a reason for devs not to apply jet fixes introduced in FC to Black Shark.

[Allochtoon]

Maybe I am not making myself clear.

 

FC is just a patch (with all the fixes to 1.02 version) + Su25T (which is the main selling point of FC).

 

Let's assume that Black Shark will allow to have online missions where jets and helicopters can be played in one mission. You can either choose jet or a chopper and go by your business. So, I simply want to have one compatible version of BS that will allow players with FC installed or without it to fly at one server with one version. The players without FC won't be able to choose Su25T to fly but they would still be able to fly other jets and choppers.

 

I don't see any reason to not include fixes introduced to jets in FC to Black Shark edition. It's just you won't be able to fly Su-25T without FC.

 

Keep in mind, Black Shark won't be a stand alone game. It will still be an addon to original Lockon (Ubisoft license).

 

Dude wake up.

[S77th-konkussion]

Weeeeellll no. No one has to buy BS to play online. If the sentiment were there to do so- bunches of squads could make decisions NOT to get BS for their servers-individually or collectively. I'm taking a shot-in-the-dark guess that the supposed fixes & enhancements that ED is working on outside of the chopper are because:

 

1. They do care about the sim & simmers. Yes- they still deserve every bit of criticism for not fixing "abc/xyz"

 

2. To entice those of us who don't give a tinker's damn about this overgrown ceiling fan to buy it anyway- thereby investing in their future title development- free from the bondage of FUBAR publishers.

[hitman]

Maybe I am not making myself clear.

 

FC is just a patch (with all the fixes to 1.02 version) + Su25T (which is the main selling point of FC).

Forget the network code that made it more stable to play it online? LOD details were also fixed, and AFM for a certain Su-25 that came with 1.02?

 

Let's assume that Black Shark will allow to have online missions where jets and helicopters can be played in one mission. You can either choose jet or a chopper and go by your business. So, I simply want to have one compatible version of BS that will allow players with FC installed or without it to fly at one server with one version. The players without FC won't be able to choose Su25T to fly but they would still be able to fly other jets and choppers.

What about the Su-25? What about the supposed AFM thats "supposedly" going to be implemented for BS? They will be incompatible as hell online. What about those who dont want to buy BS? Gonna be a nightmare for sure.

 

I don't see any reason to not include fixes introduced to jets in FC to Black Shark edition. It's just you won't be able to fly Su-25T without FC.

This is still debatable. Ive asked this numerous times, so has everyone else. I dont even think ED knows how they are going to implement this. As it is, theres still talk of a 1.13 patch, but no further word on it.

[vistrel]

Forget the network code that made it more stable to play it online? LOD details were also fixed, and AFM for a certain Su-25 that came with 1.02?

 

In my point of view, all of these "network code that made it more stable to play it online" and "LOD details were also fixed" should have been made available for free to fix the buggy 1.02 version. I would advocate to introduce these fixes to BS version, this way the owners of Lockon v1.02 + BS will have all of these benefits.

 

What about the Su-25? What about the supposed AFM thats "supposedly" going to be implemented for BS? They will be incompatible as hell online.

 

Su-25T AFM code will be added to BS but the players without FC (Lockon v1.02 + BS installation) won't be able to play it in either SP or MP unless they buy FC addon. You can leave the code in the game without letting the user fly that plane [remove the cockpit + avionics].

 

What about those who dont want to buy BS? Gonna be a nightmare for sure.

 

They will play 1.12a (or 1.02 if they didn't buy FC) as we do right now.

[vistrel]

Frankly, I hope that ED doesn't go the route you suggest as they would have to use more resources to make everything work. I'd prefer that they spend the time on the new title instead of making things compatible for people who don't care enuf about the franchise to spend a few dollars on FC. This would also delay the release of Black Shark.

 

The new title won't be out for 2 years at least so I couldn't care less about that. However, I want more people to be playing online when the two versions (with and without FC) will be compatible with each other. And from your example, only 4 out of 40 people bought the SF addon, how many do you think will bother with FC ?! Don't forget, that some of the people who will get BS won't be necessarily interested in jets. Again, this whole issue applies only if devs would decide to include choppers in jet missions. More people = more targets, more fun, clans, leagues, etc.

[Weta43]

My question:

The Su-25T will not be added when installing BS without FC, but what about the SU-25 ?

Will people who didn't get FC but did get BS be flying online in SFM Su-25 aginst people who did get FC in AFM Su-25, or for non FC BSers does the Su-25 get AFM, but the T isn't added a a flyable, or can they no-longer select either of these online ?

 

 

Also:

Vistrel said:

Su-25T AFM code will be added to BS but the players without FC (Lockon v1.02 + BS installation) won't be able to play it in either SP or MP unless they buy FC addon. You can leave the code in the game without letting the user fly that plane [remove the cockpit + avionics].

 

This is a very definite statement considering LOCKON.RU site specifically says

If you don't have Flaming Cliffs, it will upgrade Lock On to 1.2 standard but it will not include the Su-25T and Flaming Cliffs missions and campaigns.

Is this actual information or just supposition ?

[vistrel]

Weta43, regarding my post:

 

Su-25T AFM code will be added to BS but the players without FC (Lockon v1.02 + BS installation) won't be able to play it in either SP or MP unless they buy FC addon. You can leave the code in the game without letting the user fly that plane [remove the cockpit + avionics]

 

^^ This is my personal suggestion to devs for the Su25T in BS. People who have FC will be able to fly it, and people who don't will see others fly it. The AFM code (but not the actual cockpit and avionics) will allow players who don't have FC see others fly it.

[Weta43]

Surely as long as the original AI Su-25T model is still there, then people who have LO-BS but do not have LO-FC-BS and are online with people who do have LO-FC-BS & that are flying the Su-25T (or AFM Su-25) will see on their own machine the AI model for the SU-25T following whatever course the plane flown by the other player flies - it doesn't matter whether or not the AFM for the Su25(T) is installed on their own machine as their machine isn't controlling the flight of other online players, just displaying their reported position.

[Maciver]

Again, ED should focus on getting Black Shark released instead of dicking around with code to satisfy the few cheapskates out there that don't wanna buy the product.

 

Vistrel, if you want people to fly online together then they have to take the first step by buying the product. Ya know, I spend time helping some of the n00bs out that haven't bought FC yet because I figure if they get a taste of how great LOMAC is they'll buy the second release. Most people do. Those that don't, then it's your fault for the version mismatch. ED doesn't need to waste more dev time for non-paying customers.

 

I gotta go with ruggbutt on this one. Simple soloution. You wana play this game online with everyone, get all the current expansions. It's not like its that much, less than 100 bucks for all of em. ya? xbox games are 60-70 bucks, its not that much of a strech to expect people to buy the whole thing. They should obviously release a bundle package that is everything rolled into one

 

While i agree with the concept that some people will buy this just for helicopters, thats irrelevent. Why? Because this game is called Lock-On. Its not called BlackShark. Its an expansion to an already standing game. It's only common sense that you buy the game if you want the expansion pack.

 

I don't even know why they would bother wasting even 10 mins to make it playable with expansions missing.

[S77th-konkussion]

At this point I don't think you could spend a $100 on all the versions if you begged. Lock on Gold is probably $25 at the most- this brings you to the current version after you patch. Then add whatever the whirlygig ends up costing.