Pitching up when leveling

[Ragnar65]

Guys, I know several time this issue has been discussed. Anyways, because i don´t get that issue fixed I give it another try.

 

The bird is pitching up extremely when i´m leveling after the break... I deploy the gear and full flaps halfway of the break, as said by different guys before. Still the bird is pitching up when in level flight like a wild horse. Same after leveling into the groove...All of the time i have to move the stick to bring her back to the desired altitude.. And yeah I know that i have to control the alt with throttle, not stick.But that doesn´t work, even with zero throttle it pitches up, only to fall down sudenly due to low speed...

 

Any hints, considerations and so are much appreciated!

 

 

Regds

Stefan

[Flamin_Squirrel]

The 'don't control pitch with stick' rule applies once you're on-speed and stable. Pushing forward before this is fine, and indeed, necessary as you've found out!

[majapahit]

The bird is pitching up extremely when i´m leveling after the break... I deploy the gear and full flaps halfway of the break

Seems you're too fast, when I take-off w. flaps and make a 180, see that I ended up too fast before leveling @600, I raise flaps, only then level. Same at final break, when f.i. you're too slow before the final turn in, you can only add a short burst of throttle which brings you around, but nothing more. When you're fast you cut early, but mind not to correct with too much throttle in a massive short burst if necessary to get around the corner. Is what I do. (You need to know your speed all the time, in particular your speed delta, the speed acceleration or deceleration and ease into the desired number)

Edited January 26, 2019 by majapahit

[Ragnar65]

Seems you're too fast, when I take-off w. flaps and make a 180, see that I ended up too fast before leveling @600, I raise flaps, only then level. Same at final break, when f.i. you're too slow before the final turn in, you can only add a short burst of throttle which brings you around, but nothing more. When you're fast you cut early, but mind not to correct with too much throttle in a massive short burst if necessary to get around the corner. Is what I do. (You need to know your speed all the time, in particular your speed delta, the speed acceleration or deceleration and ease into the desired number)

 

 

Well, speed at leveling is at some 180 kts... Don´t think i´m too fast, saw videos of case 1 where the guys had higher speed at the end of the break... Really weird, from the numbers i´m at the same as the guys in the videos are...

[theIRIEone]

Well, speed at leveling is at some 180 kts... Don´t think i´m too fast, saw videos of case 1 where the guys had higher speed at the end of the break... Really weird, from the numbers i´m at the same as the guys in the videos are...

 

180kts after break is totally fine.. I think it's weird but you indeed need to push stick forward to stay level at this time until you're trimmed out for AoA.

 

If you find your aircraft pitching up after the 2nd turn when leveling for final approach, you're too fast, because at that point you should be on AoA and therefor control pitch (altitude) with throttle.

[Nospin44]

Are you trimming to on speed?

[TechRoss]

I think Lex mentioned in one of his vids, but could have been another Hornet driver, that you have to give a huge amount of forward pressure on the stick when the flaps come down.

 

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

[oldcrusty]

I think Lex mentioned in one of his vids, but could have been another Hornet driver, that you have to give a huge amount of forward pressure on the stick when the flaps come down.

 

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

 

I think they were probably describing what they do when flying DCS Hornet...:)

It would be nice to hear these Hornet drivers elaborate on pitch behavior after bolter (after any 2 wheels have weight on them) or after launch or t/o. Pitch trim v. AOA trim, etc.

[Ragnar65]

Are you trimming to on speed?

Sure i do...

[majapahit]

Well, speed at leveling is at some 180 kts... Don´t think i´m too fast, saw videos of case 1 where the guys had higher speed at the end of the break... Really weird, from the numbers i´m at the same as the guys in the videos are...

not too fast, perhaps to much throttle/thrust still?

[Tomsk]

The bird is pitching up extremely when i´m leveling after the break... I deploy the gear and full flaps halfway of the break, as said by different guys before. Still the bird is pitching up when in level flight like a wild horse. Same after leveling into the groove...All of the time i have to move the stick to bring her back to the desired altitude.. And yeah I know that i have to control the alt with throttle, not stick.But that doesn´t work, even with zero throttle it pitches up, only to fall down sudenly due to low speed...

 

So I had a big issue with pitch up after the break until a friend of mine suggested sticking the flaps and gear down as soon as you can (250 knots) which should happen half way through the break. Then use the extra lift it generates to help finish the break turn, i.e. roll more to the left so that the pitch up just pulls the turn a bit tighter (and release stick back pressure a bit).

 

If it's still nosing up in the level out then push the stick forward to keep it where you want it. This is a totally reasonable thing to do in the downwind if you need to. Alt for throttle is once you are established on speed.

 

As for leveling into the groove that's not anything weird, that's because some of your power was being used for turning ... you stopped turning, so now that power is going to cause climbing. Ideally you need to anticipate this and reduce power a bit as you roll level. If you fail to do that and find yourself climbing too much then IMO it is better to punt the nose down a little with the stick and reduce power at the same time, rather than climb much too high and then falling like a rock as the power reduction kicks in. As long as you do reduce power at the same time as you push the nose forward then the AoA will recover to the right value fairly quickly. It also needs to be brief: a quick forward punt on the stick and then back to neutral, otherwise you are going to be at the wrong AoA at the boat.

Edited January 27, 2019 by Tomsk

[CobaltUK]

Lex talks a lot about throttle to offset climb. Think it was this video

 

 

[Ragnar65]

Lex talks a lot about throttle to offset climb. Think it was this video

 

 

 

 

Yeah, you´re right! Found it, watched it and with some practicing this issue is fixed... ;-) Thanx alot!

[Lex Talionis]

:)

[oldma8]

I think Lex mentioned in one of his vids, but could have been another Hornet driver, that you have to give a huge amount of forward pressure on the stick when the flaps come down.

 

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Yeah I remember Lex talking about the extreme pitch up when leaving the deck post bolter. He was saying that this is not the case for the real hornet. I find it hard to believe that this much pitch up would be normal for a 25klb+ bird. But I am not a real pilot, so not sure. He suggested the dcs flight model might have to be be looked at.

[Overparduffer]

When you drop the flaps on any aircraft it creates more lift. Whether or not it's too extreme in the F-18 I have no idea but IRL in smaller GA aircraft, when you drop the flaps you immediately push the yoke in/down to counteract the additional lift from the flaps. Otherwise you will balloon noticeably.

[Lex Talionis]

.... the amount of pitch is manageable in the game (currently). And within the realm of reason ability for acuracy. Keep in context: you are trimmed for aprox 140kts and just added about 17k thrust per engine. Nose is going to rise quickly, your left hand can't be slow.

Edited January 31, 2019 by Lex Talionis

[DeltaMike]

I chop the throttle going into the break and don't get back on it until after wings level and I still have to give it forward stick. I think the fcs must be trimming for the high aoa during the break and it just takes a second to readjust. Same thing happens rolling out on final but for a different reason, because I was flogging the throttle during the turn.

[majapahit]

I chop the throttle going into the break and don't get back on it until after wings level and I still have to give it forward stick. I think the fcs must be trimming for the high aoa during the break and it just takes a second to readjust. Same thing happens rolling out on final but for a different reason, because I was flogging the throttle during the turn.

If you switch on the control indicator you can see exactly what the FCS does,

 

and yes it trims when you hard bank left clean, and it keeps trimming when dirtying up.

[oldcrusty]

Has my computer's FCS tweaked itself a little? I don't see any notes related to FM in today's update but... I did notice less ballooning after the break and generally better AOA control in PA mode. I always do the break the same way: come in at anywhere from 350 to 600:P, power idle, snap into break, extend boards pulling whatever G is appropriate, when slowing through 250 (still in steep bank) drop gear and flaps... you know the rest of the drill. Today when rolling out on downwind I still had 175 kts - it took only minimal push on the stick. Started trimming for AOA when VV began to drop slowly while adding power. It definitely took less throttle jockeying to stay on amber donut throughout the turn. (I dropped from 180 to final like the Air Force guys (and girls) do:D)

I did touch and go... well, after WoW then lift off the jet still behaved like before: trimmed for approach AOA although less forward stick was required to tame it.

I know... no changes to FM were made! Could be something on my rig or in my head.

Edited January 30, 2019 by Gripes323