Damage Model & Random Failures

[Rudel_chw]

Hello

 

I'm very pleased that, starting with DCS Openbeta version 2.5.4.27314, we can now simulate aircraft failures .. first tests seems promising, this is now the Failures Tab of the C-101CC:

 

 

The EB version is identical except that it doesnt have the last item (Gunsight lamp).

 

Tested the inverter failure, and sure enough, I lost almost all my instrumentation:

 

 

.. it made for a hairy landing, not knowing my speed, altitud, sink rate :)

 

You dont get to know what the failure origin is, so you can practice the emergency procedures, but at the end of the flight, the debrief tells you exactly what happened:

 

 

Loving it so far, hope that the list of failed equipment can be expanded a bit :)

Best regards

[Rudel_chw]

Hello,

I'm pleased to report that the last few updates of the C-101, have greatly expanded the list of Devices that can fail, just compare it with the one on the 1st post:

 

 

So, I started to play a bit with them .. to learn and practice the Emergency Procedures of the real aircraft.

The easiest to try first seemed to be the electrical system's failures, as there are only three of them: Generator, Batteries or Inverter failures .. but I encountered some issues and I wonder if perhaps there is still work in progress around some of them, let see:

 

1) First to try was a Generator failure, and I'm pleased to report that the Emergency Procedure seemed to work perfectly, tough I still need to test how many minutes of battery endurance does the aircraft have:

 

 

2) With the Inverter failure, there isnt much one can do about it on the procedure, one loses all the AC powered devices:

 

 

The aircraft has two Inverters and the Failure event takes both of them down simultaneously, which is a bit unrealistic, I wish we could have the option of failing each individual Inverters, so that I could first lose the Normal Inverter and see the Standby Inverter taking its place, and then later on trigger the failure of the standby inverter :)

I also noted that the Warning Lights for the Inverters, dont lit during the failure.

 

3) Final failure was the Battery failure, sadly here the Emergency procedure of the real aircraft dont seem to work .. the start of the failure is fine:

 

 

then I turn ON the Bus transfer switch, so far so good:

 

 

but when I turn OFF the Bus Tie Switch, the electrical system loses all its power:

 

 

and remains unpowered even if I turn back ON the Bus Tie switch .. couldnt find the cause.

 

Will keep trying other Failure types and report on them here, as I really like the subject of Emergencies :D

Best regards,

 

Eduardo

Edited November 4, 2019 by Rudel_chw

[Rudel_chw]

Hello,

 

Today I tried the "Oil Pressure Drop" failure ... the first clue that the pilot receives (unless he is monitoring the oil pressure gauge constantly) is a warning light:

 

 

Then of course one checks the gauge:

 

 

The manual procedure says that moving the throttle can worsen the leak, the recomended steps are to not touch the throttle but head to the nearest airbase.

 

After a little while, I start to get more warnings:

 

 

the generator fails:

 

 

then I get an engine fire:

 

 

 

This aircraft does not have fire extinguisher, so I cut the fuel:

 

 

Now I lose hydraulic pressure, so I'm with no speedbrake and no flaps, the landing gear will have to be extended by means of the emergency bottle.

 

 

Fortunately, by now I'm nearing the closest airbase:

 

 

I wait until very near the runway, to follow the procedure for emergency extension of the landing gear:

 

 

 

 

Now I'm near the landing, I line-up carefully as while we will have emergency wheelbrakes, the differential braking will not work, we land a bit fast as I have no flaps and no airbrake:

 

 

Fortunately, I'm able to land safely and it was a thrilling flight, as I had to soar for about 10 nm, the failure having occured at 17 nm of Senaki and at an altitude of 6.500 feet.

 

Possible items that are WIP:

 

- The engine was on fire, yet there was no smoke trail behind the aircraft.

- After landing, I noticed that the differential braking still worked, but the emergency brakes shouldn't.

 

Now I will write my summary of this Emergency procedure, to add to my Kneeboard :D

Cheers.

 

 

Eduardo

[kontiuka]

good stuff!

[golani79]

Looking good - makes a great way to practice certain procedures.

[Vibora]

Good to see that someone pays attention to the failures we implemented, and provides some feedback.

Can't guarantee that we'll look at those issues very soon, but we take good note of it.

Thank you Rudel and enjoy it.

[Rudel_chw]

Vibora said:

Thank you Rudel and enjoy it.

 

You are welcome, and I'm having a blast playing with the emergencies .. here I tried a windmilling engine relight at a relatively low altitude:

 

 

Edited August 21, 2022 by Rudel_chw
Restored the YT link

[Rudel_chw]

Hello,

 

Today I'm learning the Landing Gear Emergency procedures, but I haven't been able to land with a missing mainwheel without crashing ... I've tried several times but cant manage to keep the right wing on the air for any amount of time after touch down

 

 

Also, for some reason the pitch trim has an annoying beep when pressed and I havent been able to find the cause. The aileron trim works perfect, but the pitch trim does work but produces the beep beep that can be heard on the video

 

Cheers.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Rudel_chw
Restored the YT link

[Fri13]

These are great systems, something that is about real flying, instead blowing stuff up....

[Fri13]

 

The aircraft has two Inverters and the Failure event takes both of them down simultaneously, which is a bit unrealistic, I wish we could have the option of failing each individual Inverters, so that I could first lose the Normal Inverter and see the Standby Inverter taking its place, and then later on trigger the failure of the standby inverter :)

 

Agree.

 

If there are backups, then you need to have those separately possible be damaged.

 

And I would like that developers suggest ED to make possible on any aircraft, a malfunction in any of the instruments. Example in this case you could get a warning lights malfunction, first flicker or go On and Off for some times, or voltage instrument to get broken and turn Off completely. Like get a altitude instrument freeze.

 

This way generate a possible problems not in systems but instruments and see how you react to those procedures.

[kontiuka]

Also, for some reason the pitch trim has an annoying beep when pressed and I havent been able to find the cause. The aileron trim works perfect, but the pitch trim does work but produces the beep beep that can be heard on the video :(

From the manual, p.48 …

 

An acoustic warning can be heard in the headsets while trimming. When pulling the TONO TRIM (TRIM TONE) circuit breaker, this acoustic warning will be silenced and guards will not cut out airbrake and trim.

[Rudel_chw]

From the manual, p.48 …

 

An acoustic warning can be heard in the headsets while trimming. When pulling the TONO TRIM (TRIM TONE) circuit breaker, this acoustic warning will be silenced and guards will not cut out airbrake and trim.

 

Thank you for the tip ... will try it :) curiously, this beep is only for the pitch trim, the aileron trim is silent.

 

I dont remember having this issue earlier, so it must be something introduced on the last few patches (tough I's been several months since my last fly on the C101.

 

Best regards

[Rudel_chw]

From the manual, p.48 …

 

An acoustic warning can be heard in the headsets while trimming. When pulling the TONO TRIM (TRIM TONE) circuit breaker, this acoustic warning will be silenced and guards will not cut out airbrake and trim.

 

Hi,

 

I have just tried this tip, but couldnt find such a Circuit Breaker, these are the ones in front:

 

 

and these are the ones on the rear cabin:

 

 

The one named "TRIMS" disables the Trim system, the one named "Speed Brk, Gear, Trim Ind" only disables the indicators on the top left of the instrument panel.

 

:(

[Vibora]

Thank you for the tip ... will try it :) curiously, this beep is only for the pitch trim, the aileron trim is silent.

 

I dont remember having this issue earlier, so it must be something introduced on the last few patches (tough I's been several months since my last fly on the C101.

 

Best regards

That sound was added on April this year. Tono (Tone) trim is in the left console (see page 52 of DCS C-101 Flight Manual (Figure 3-45 Emergency panel 6 TRIM TONE BREAKER (FRONT COCKPIT ONLY).

[Rudel_chw]

That sound was added on April this year. Tono (Tone) trim is in the left console (see page 52 of DCS C-101 Flight Manual (Figure 3-45 Emergency panel 6 TRIM TONE BREAKER (FRONT COCKPIT ONLY).

 

Found it ... thank you, I was so focused on looking at the CB Panel that never tought to look there :)

 

 

One other small item to add to the WIP list, would be to give more meaningful descriptions to each failure type, currently it is like this:

 

 

Best regards.

[Rudel_chw]

Hello,

 

While the EB version of the C-101 doesn't yet have the Engine Computer Failure implemented, the CC version does, and using the information given by @Vibora on this post (https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4101720&postcount=13) I managed to try it out:

 

 

The procedure I used was this:

 

 

Since the Emergency Fuel Lever is a bit akward to operate while flying, I updated my HOTAS config so that I could control the lever using the Throttle along with a Modifier button (S3), like this:

 

 

That's why on the video you can see me using the throttle to move the Fuel Lever ... the mid position of the throttle is neutral, and a tug back decreases the lever, while a tug forward increases it

 

Curiously, the COMPUTER lamp on the warning panel does not lit during this emergency.

Cheers,

 

 

Eduardo

Edited August 21, 2022 by Rudel_chw
Restored YT link

[xvii-Dietrich]

I've been trying to replication the original post in this thread. But I cannot get this to work. In the mission editor, if I place a C-101, and then select the failures tab, the columns are blank. This applies to both the EB and CC versions. I have random system failures selected in the mission options. I am using DCS 2.5.5.39003.

 

 

Is there some other thing that I need to do to enable this in the mission editor?

[Rudel_chw]

I've been trying to replication the original post in this thread. But I cannot get this to work. In the mission editor, if I place a C-101, and then select the failures tab, the columns are blank. This applies to both the EB and CC versions. I have random system failures selected in the mission options. I am using DCS 2.5.5.39003.

 

 

Is there some other thing that I need to do to enable this in the mission editor?

 

Ensure that the aircraft pilot is set to "player" and not "client", as the failures in DCS is a single player feature only, it is not meant for multiplayer.

[xvii-Dietrich]

Ensure that the aircraft pilot is set to "player" and not "client", as the failures in DCS is a single player feature only, it is not meant for multiplayer.

 

Yes. That was it.

 

I had been using client. As soon as I switched it to player, and then unselected and re-selected the failures tab, it worked perfectly. :)

 

Thank you for your very prompt and helpful reply.

[Rudel_chw]

Rudel_chw said:

... After landing, I noticed that the differential braking still worked, but the emergency brakes shouldn't

...

While the EB version of the C-101 doesn't yet have the Engine Computer Failure implemented, the CC version does ...

 

Hello,

 

I'm glad to report that on today's patch of the Open Beta, Aviodev fixed both issues:

 

- Now an Hydraulic failure impacts on the normal wheelbrakes, forcing the pilot to use the Emergency braking bottle (trough the Parking brake lever) when landing .. once on the ground, the aircraft would have to be towed, as it cant be steered without the normal wheelbrakes

 

- The EB version now has the Engine Computer added to the list of Failures.

 

Vibora said:

... Can't guarantee that we'll look at those issues very soon, but we take good note of it.

Thank you Rudel and enjoy it.

 

Thank you, the Aviodev team's responsiveness is actually superb and exceed my expectations ... today I tested the hydraulic failure again and it worked perfectly

 

 

 

I will now edit and share a simple Mission, for those that would like to try out Emergency Procedures ... in fact, I'm thinking on two versions: One were the user request the failure trough the F10 Menu, and another where the failure happens randomly and thus the Pilot has first to determine what is actually the system that failed

 

Best regards,

 

Eduardo

Edited August 21, 2022 by Rudel_chw
Restored YT link

[Vibora]

You are also doing a great job testing and working with failures, congrats to you also :)

[Vibora]

Curiously, the COMPUTER lamp on the warning panel does not lit during this emergency.

In fact it is a FCU ( Fuel Control Unit) failure, we'll probably change its name and rework it a bit.

[Rudel_chw]

Rudel_chw said:

I will now edit and share a simple Mission, for those that would like to try out Emergency Procedures ... in fact, I'm thinking on two versions: One were the user request the failure trough the F10 Menu, and another where the failure happens randomly and thus the Pilot has first to determine what is actually the system that failed

 

Here I'm testing a first version of these Missions, this is the Failure list that I want to use as a starting point:

 

 

... and a video of a test flight:

 

 

Vibora said:

In fact it is a FCU ( Fuel Control Unit) failure, we'll probably change its name and rework it a bit.

 

On the real aircraft the warning light says "COMPUT." .. so, I prefer to keep as is .. it's more authentic

 

Cheers.

 

Eduardo

Edited August 21, 2022 by Rudel_chw
Restored YT link

[Vibora]

On the real aircraft the warning light says "COMPUT." .. so, I prefer to keep as is .. it's more authentic :)

 

There are two different failures, FCU, which means you'll have to use the emergency fuel system (back-up), and computer failure, which activates the COMPUTER warning and means you'll have to use manual mode in case you can't recover it by resetting the engine computer switch (which is the case we are simulating right now).

[Rudel_chw]

I'm testing a first version of these Missions, this is the Failure list that I want to use as a starting point:

 

 

 

Hello,

 

Well, thanks to the input of @gulredrel, I learned that the F10 custom menu can't hold more than 10 items, so I had to look for an alternative approach. I know that the Moose scripting framework has a component for creating nested menus, but I'm still very poor at scripting, so yesterday I devised a scripting approach:

 

The first time I call up the F10 menu, it will give me this "Failure Categories" Menu:

 

 

And then, I bring up the F10 menu again, and I will have instead the Failures within that Category, this is the Engine category:

 

 

this is the Instruments category:

 

 

So, on this mission I get to practice any emergency ... now I will edit a second version of the mission, where the failure is random and I'm not told which specific failure it is (until the end of the mission, when I intend to reveal what it was).

 

Playing with these emergencies has been a blast, even if sometimes I'm not able to make it to base:

 

 

:D Thanks again to the developers' for a joy of a plane .. cant wait to see their Mirage F-1 :)

 

 

Eduardo