NRAS and PC ODU options not working?

[Esac_mirmidon]

Exactly.

[EinsteinEP]

Technically, the PCs are set for nose angle above the horizon, not AoA - you can have the witches hat on the PCs and be descending and reach or exceed 15° AoA.

[fjacobsen]

Technically, the PCs are set for nose angle above the horizon, not AoA - you can have the witches hat on the PCs and be descending and reach or exceed 15° AoA.

 

 

The description of PC and Witch hat use is to prevent exceeding an AOA of 15° in level flight during take off.

Level flight is, as we know, when the Velocity vector is at the 0° (Horizon line) of the pitch ladder. When this happens You will see that the Witch hat will be at 6° (just a tad above the 5° pitch ladder).

 

From the Pocket guide:

 

By default, Pitch Carets (PC) are set at 14 for all takeoffs. This places the pitch carets at 6o elevation with respect to the horizon bars in VSTOL Master Mode. This position indicates the desired post-takeoff placement of the Depressed Attitude Symbol (or Witch Hat). This takeoff attitude is the level equivalent of 14o AOA.

 

Further from the Pocket guide:

 

Accelerating Transition (AT)

Accelerating Transition is the term used to describe transition from jetborne/semi-jetborne flight to wingborne flight. The AT begins when the aircraft is clear of ground effect and at an altitude sufficient to avoid obstacles and introduction of FOD onto the landing surface.

WARNING

During AT, AOA must not exceed 15°. Over-rotation or high rotational rates may result in the AOA rising uncontrollably even with stick full forward. Uncontrollable pitch ups are most likely to occur at extreme aft CG loadings and/or with the wing flaps deflected more than 25°.

1. Throttle.......FULL

2. Attitude.......SET WITCH HAT AT THE PITCH CARETS

 

Continue to maintain wings level and vane centered.

 

3. Nozzles........GRADUALLY ROTATE THE NOZZLES AFT.

 

Maintain nozzle angle of 25° or greater while in STOL flaps

Nozzle rotation should enable the aircraft to maintain a slight climb.

Remember that for vertical take off and landing, the Nozzles are set to 82°, thats 8° from straight down (90°) - which the Wich hat indicates.

 

So for 90° thrust vector You must raise the nose inorder to align the Witch hat with the horizon line - thats 82+8 = 90°.

Max AOA is 15°, exceeding this might cause You to loose control.

With the Wich hat on the horizon line and moving forward with the Velocity vector also on the horizon line gives You an AOA of 8°.

The Pitch carets now indicate the furthest You might point Your nose up in level flight safely -which is 6° nose up, so 8° AOA becomes 8+6 = 14° AOA .

 

 

I´m not sure when You would want to set a different PC, but could be related to different CG of the aircraft, maybe with certain ordenance configurations or assymetric load - maybe some with knowledge ragarding this could chime in.

 

 

Edited February 15, 2019 by fjacobsen

[Nealius]

If that’s the case guys, just input 6 until it gets fixed. Who knows how long that will take?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

We have to get working NRAS and PC functions first.....

[Shadow_1stVFW]

I see with todays hotfix that NRAS and PC now can be set via the ODU.

 

 

 

 

We have to get working NRAS and PC functions first.....

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Nealius]

It's in the hotfix? That wasn't mentioned in the hotfix notes when I read them at release.

[Eagle7907]

NRAS and PC ODU options not working?

 

It's in the hotfix? That wasn't mentioned in the hotfix notes when I read them at release.

 

 

That still surprises you? ;)

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Nealius]

I don't have the C-101 so I was like "meh, pass" on the update.

[fjacobsen]

I got in touch with the coder from Razbam yesterday and he confirmed that a PC setting of 14 should set the Pitch carets at 6° and that this has been fixed for the next update.

[Shadow_1stVFW]

It missed the main update and was pushed with the hotfix.

[arturojgt]

Can anyone post a link about why is so important the relation between the position of the witch hat and the pc? I understand about the angle of attack is 0 when they are together. Can anyone put some light on my path?

 

 

Sent from my Tornado IDS while on autopilot using Tapatalk Pro.

[arturojgt]

Is 14 the critical AoA that I must never exceed when hovering? And why do you want to change this values in the ODU?

 

 

Sent from my Tornado IDS while on autopilot using Tapatalk Pro.

[Nealius]

Can anyone post a link about why is so important the relation between the position of the witch hat and the pc? I understand about the angle of attack is 0 when they are together. Can anyone put some light on my path?

 

 

Sent from my Tornado IDS while on autopilot using Tapatalk Pro.

 

Witch Hat is 8° down in the HUD. Whatever angle up in the HUD the PC is, you add with that 8°. So if the PC is at 6° in the HUD 8+6 = 14° AoA. Meaning, if you put the Witch Hat on the PC, you are effectively flying at 14° AoA.

[Ramsay]

Is 14 the critical AoA that I must never exceed when hovering?

AFAIK, you don't want to exceed 15° AoA (i.e. the Witch's Hat is much higher than the FPM) but I don't think it has much to do with hovering as there's no airflow over the wings, so no meaningful AoA (you'll use moderate control inputs, referencing the witch's hat and horizon).

 

And why do you want to change this values in the ODU?

 

The Pitch Clarets are positioned wrongly in DCS Open Beta 2.5.4.27430, they should be at the +6° pitch ladder position but are at +14° by default.

 

Until the PC bug is fixed, PC should be set to 6 (to position the Pitch Clarets at +6° on the HUD pitch ladder).

 

With the Pitch Clarets at +6°, they are used to position the Witch's Hat (between +5° and +6°) when rotating during CTO's and STO's and for the climb out.

Edited February 16, 2019 by Ramsay

[Nealius]

The question of why would the pilot want to change the PC location is interesting though. I don't recall anything from the NATOPS or VMAT-203 syllabus describing a situation when the PC would be set to something other than 14.

[fjacobsen]

Read here (I posted this further up this thread, but slightly more detailed here):

 

 

The description of PC and Witch hat use is to prevent exceeding an AOA of 15° in level flight during take off. As a safety margin 14° is used instead.

Level flight is, as we know, when the Velocity vector is at the 0° (Horizon line) of the pitch ladder.

 

When this happens and the Witch hat is at 6° (just a tad above the 5° pitch ladder), the AOA will be 14°.

 

From the Pocket guide:

 

By default, Pitch Carets (PC) are set at 14 for all takeoffs. This places the pitch carets at 6° elevation Remember the Witch hat is depressed 8° + 6° = 14°) with respect to the horizon bars in VSTOL Master Mode. This position indicates the desired post-takeoff placement of the Depressed Attitude Symbol (or Witch Hat). This takeoff attitude is the level equivalent of 14° AOA.

 

Further from the Pocket guide:

 

Accelerating Transition (AT)

Accelerating Transition is the term used to describe transition from jetborne/semi-jetborne flight to wingborne flight. The AT begins when the aircraft is clear of ground effect and at an altitude sufficient to avoid obstacles and introduction of FOD onto the landing surface.

WARNING

During AT, AOA must not exceed 15°. Over-rotation or high rotational rates may result in the AOA rising uncontrollably even with stick full forward. Uncontrollable pitch ups are most likely to occur at extreme aft CG loadings and/or with the wing flaps deflected more than 25°.

1. Throttle.......FULL

2. Attitude.......SET WITCH HAT AT THE PITCH CARETS

 

Continue to maintain wings level and vane centered.

 

3. Nozzles........GRADUALLY ROTATE THE NOZZLES AFT.

 

Maintain nozzle angle of 25° or greater while in STOL flaps

Nozzle rotation should enable the aircraft to maintain a slight climb.

 

Remember that for vertical take off and landing, the Nozzles are set to 82°, thats 8° from straight down (90°) - which the Witch hat indicates.

 

So for 90° thrust vector You must raise the nose inorder to align the Witch hat with the horizon line - thats 82+8 = 90°.

Max AOA is 15°, exceeding this might cause You to loose control.

With the Witch hat on the horizon line and moving forward with the Velocity vector also on the horizon line gives You an AOA of 8°.

The Pitch carets now indicate the furthest You might point Your nose up in level flight safely -which is 6° nose up, so 8° AOA becomes 8+6 = 14° AOA .

 

Essentially the the pitch cartes indicate the furthest the nose (Witch hat) should be raised at level flight before riscing to loose pitch authority.

 

14° is used instead of the max 15°as a safety measure I guess.

 

I´m not sure when You would want to set a different PC, but could be related to different CG of the aircraft, maybe with certain ordenance configurations or assymetric load - maybe some with knowledge regarding this could chime in.

I'm not very happy about the communication here in this forum, but I found that the Razbam developers actually are quite active on Discord - why this is so I don't know.

Razbam_Tobbe seems to be the new guy brought in to further development of the AV-8B, so hopes to see this module being enhanced are higher on my end.

 

 

Discord link: https://discordapp.com/channels/536389125276827660/544216278735257611

 

 

For those interested in the M2000C development, where Zeus67 is active look here: https://discordapp.com/channels/536389125276827660/544216334045544448

Edited February 16, 2019 by fjacobsen

[arturojgt]

Read here (I posted this further up this thread, but slightly more detailed here):

 

 

I'm not very happy about the communication here in this forum, but I found that the Razbam developers actually are quite active on Discord - why this is so I don't know.

Razbam_Tobbe seems to be the new guy brought in to further development of the AV-8B, so hopes to see this module being enhanced are higher on my end.

 

 

Discord link: https://discordapp.com/channels/536389125276827660/544216278735257611

 

 

Can you post the discord link to razbam again? This link from above is not working.

 

 

Sent from my Tornado IDS while on autopilot using Tapatalk Pro.

[fjacobsen]

Read here (I posted this further up this thread, but slightly more detailed here):

 

 

I'm not very happy about the communication here in this forum, but I found that the Razbam developers actually are quite active on Discord - why this is so I don't know.

Razbam_Tobbe seems to be the new guy brought in to further development of the AV-8B, so hopes to see this module being enhanced are higher on my end.

 

 

Discord link: https://discordapp.com/channels/536389125276827660/544216278735257611

 

 

Can you post the discord link to razbam again? This link from above is not working.

 

 

Sent from my Tornado IDS while on autopilot using Tapatalk Pro.

 

 

You need to create an account to get in there.

I´m rather new with Discord too, but most "gamers" seems to use this for both comms and chat.

 

 

As a former (and to a degree current) FSX/P3D developer, I have seen this trend for some years now.

Developers being online in a direct chat room where they can do direct contact with the users.

Personally I don´t like that, cause I rather want to spend my time down into the coding, rather by being disturbed by all kind of input - but in this regards I seems to be old fashioned.

 

 

I also rather would like them to be active in this forum, where all DCS related stuff is collected, but maybe they don´t feel that it works for them.

 

 

I still think they should make some weekly excerpts from thei online conversations here, inorder to communicate what they are doing and planning.

 

 

My feeling was (and to some degree still is) - that the M2000C and AV-8B is at a standstill, and too little effort has been put in yo make any measurable progress.

Edited February 16, 2019 by fjacobsen

[Mecrutio]

Now hold on.

 

IMHO, the response to this NRAS/PC mistake was swift. Discord, ED Forums.... Doesn'T matter. They listened and responded.

 

I try not to rant but um gonna... this topic was resolved EONS ago when VREST was implemented. Git wrapped up into too much relying on onboard systems and one looses sight of "the feel". Today, I flopped off the bow 400lbs over weight from spot 6. NRAS blinked on 50 yards after the bow.

 

BUT, I do it knowing ill git a cup of coffee after a fail. Not drowning after x million is sent to Davy Jones.

 

Until this AF, ze toad was my bird. Haven't touched that dog since. Find ur analog dials, pay attention.

 

Close dis topic.

[Mecrutio]

Use the force.