RIO question, at what Range to pd-stt?

[DarkStar79]

When playing as a RIO, at what range are you STT the guy?

 

2 examples.

 

let’s say you are out of aim-54s, at what range are you STT so the pilot can shoot the aim-7s?

 

When you have AIM-54s, at what range is a good habit to STT?

 

I know it depends of the situation. But want to know roughly how and when it’s good to use STT..

 

Thx

 

 

 

 

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[Cowboy10uk]

I tend to start switching to STT around 50 miles. No idea if it’s the correct procedure, but I do find it does help me tracking the different aircraft.

[Spiceman]

I don’t think there’s a hard and fast rule for when to STT. Basically you STT when you’re prosecuting a single target. If you’re running an intercept as a section, typically you sort (e.g. Lead takes lead, Wing takes trail) and then Wing shoots in an STT and Lead shoots and remains in TWS. Then after assessing which threats remain for the merge, the engaged fighter will STT and the free fighter will remain in TWS to maintain situational awareness.

 

If you’re a single, shoot in TWS and remain there until you have to pick your biggest threat and STT for the merge (or choose to run).

Edited April 7, 2019 by Spiceman
Typo

[DarkStar79]

I don’t think there’s a hard and fast rule for when to STT. Basically you STT when you’re prosecuting a single target. If you’re running an intercept as a section, typically you sort (e.g. Lead takes lead, Wing takes trail) and then Wing shoots in an STT and Lead shoots and remains in TWS. Then after assessing which threats remain for the merge, the engaged fighter will STT and the free fighter will remain in TWS to maintain situational awareness.

 

If you’re a single, shoot in TWS and remain there until you have to pick your biggest threat and STT for the merge (or choose to run).

 

Thx for that. Love your videos Spiceman! Maybe you should talk about the tactics next video? ;-)

 

Yea its just that i dont want to alert the guys with a STT, So i have often been wainting to around 20Nm and it is maybe to late. Its also hard for the pilot to know where to steer without a STT sometimes it feels..

[WindyTX]

If I am 1v2 I will shoot both guys once I can see them separately and hope they don't track swap. I will STT right at the end if I need to.

 

 

This may help it is not perfect by any means but the Tacview from each run is at the end. They are AI and the 2nd one does a stall turn

 

Below are a couple of runs using STT and Sparrow. Hopefully it's useful but I don't do much in the way of editing.

 

 

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Edited April 7, 2019 by WindyTX

[DarkStar79]

If I am 1v2 I will shoot both guys once I can see them separately and hope they don't track swap. I will STT right at the end if I need to.

 

 

This may help it is not perfect by any means but the Tacview from each run is at the end. They are AI and the 2nd one does a stall turn

 

Below are a couple of runs using STT and Sparrow. Hopefully it's useful but I don't do much in the way of editing.

 

 

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Thx for that! I learnt a couple of things from that! I also struggling to keep the target in the TID, it seems I often loose track of the guy. I guess that have to do with the elevation on the radar or something? Especially when fighing on multiplayer where all planes tends to fly low nowdays. How do you use the elevation? I guess you should always have it tilted slightly down when flying high?

 

Also I guess you should always use the Puls-STT first. Why would you ever use the PD-STT?

 

Also in the first video there at 8:40 you where talking about a track swap? I have seen that happening alot when the track line just instantly moves from like head on to like the plane is notching? The update should be 2 seconds on the radar and the plane couldnt have made that turn in that amount of time. So why is that happening?

Edited April 8, 2019 by Kristoffer79

[QuiGon]

Also I guess you should always use the Puls-STT first. Why would you ever use the PD-STT?

Because P-STT doesn't work against targets below you because of the ground clutter, which gets filtered out in PD-STT.

[DarkStar79]

Because P-STT doesn't work against targets below you because of the ground clutter, which gets filtered out in PD-STT.

 

yea i know but i mean when you are higher up. I guess then you should always try and P-STT, cause its harder to notch?

[escaner]

F-15 pilots in the USAF switched to STT within 10 NM.

[Spiceman]

Yea its just that i dont want to alert the guys with a STT

 

Thanks... yep, you’re head’s in the right place. If you’ve launched a Phoenix they’re aware of your presence once it goes active, and if you’ve been spiked you can assume they’re aware of your presence. Maneuvering can also tell you, if you offset and they jink into you, they’re aware of your presence. All of those should factor into your decision. Ideally, you don’t want them to know they’re in a fight until it’s too late (for them).

 

Yeah, the next video will be around running intercepts in the Tomcat and the associated radar techniques.

[WindyTX]

F-15 pilots in the USAF switched to STT within 10 NM.

Hmm what weapon are they using. This is rather a blunt statement and TBH not true I have flown against many F15 they certainly did not all lock at 10nm I rather wish they had.

 

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[WindyTX]

Thx for that! I learnt a couple of things from that! I also struggling to keep the target in the TID, it seems I often loose track of the guy. I guess that have to do with the elevation on the radar or something? Especially when fighing on multiplayer where all planes tends to fly low nowdays. How do you use the elevation? I guess you should always have it tilted slightly down when flying high?

 

Also I guess you should always use the Puls-STT first. Why would you ever use the PD-STT?

 

Also in the first video there at 8:40 you where talking about a track swap? I have seen that happening alot when the track line just instantly moves from like head on to like the plane is notching? The update should be 2 seconds on the radar and the plane couldnt have made that turn in that amount of time. So why is that happening?

PD STT

As someone said you need pdStt for look down ground clutter rejection.

 

Antenna Angle

 

The radar tells you coverage at Max range which is a bit pants really so I now use the 1 in 60 rule and keep it simple 1 degree down is 1000ft at 10 miles, 2000ft at 20 4000ft at 40 ( approximately which is all you need). If target is 10000ft above at 40 miles then he is 2.5 degrees up. As he closes assuming he stay level then you need approx 10 degrees up.

 

You use the elevation knob to set antenna angle and the hcu to fine tune but it only has +/- 4 degrees so be careful.

 

"Track swap"

 

If a tgt suddenly goes left or right very fast it is what we used to call a track swap in the Tornado F3. It means the track store has updated a second targets location into the 1st tgts store so the track jumps around very fast and is trashed you have to wait for it to see the tgt again and let it settle which can be unnerving at the closure rates. Plus in reality this may trash missile I don't know tho and ATM I believe they are active off the rails, in the second video where you see the track swap the subsequent tacview show the missiles do nothing. From what I see most people fly pretty close together as a pair in DCS so you will probably see a lot of this.

 

I never flew in the F14 and my Radar was was way better in every regard to the F14B

Until TWS Auto is working it's kind of a pain however with the current Aim54 it may not matter that much. When it is fixed it will make my 2 videos irelavant I hope. I made them for my group as we had a few questions and a lot of RIOs in training including me.

 

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Edited April 8, 2019 by WindyTX
Autocorrect

[DarkStar79]

PD STT

As someone said you need pdStt for look down ground clutter rejection.

 

Antenna Angle

 

The radar tells you coverage at Max range which is a bit pants really so I now use the 1 in 60 rule and keep it simple 1 degree down is 1000ft at 10 miles, 2000ft at 20 4000ft at 40 ( approximately which is all you need). If target is 10000ft above at 40 miles then he is 2.5 degrees up. As he closes assuming he stay level then you need approx 10 degrees up.

 

You use the elevation knob to set antenna angle and the hcu to fine tune but it only has +/- 4 degrees so be careful.

 

"Track swap"

 

If a tgt suddenly goes left or right very fast it is what we used to call a track swap in the Tornado F3. It means the track store has updated a second targets location into the 1st tgts store so the track jumps around very fast and is trashed you have to wait for it to see the tgt again and let it settle which can be unnerving at the closure rates. Plus in reality this may trash missile I don't know tho and ATM I believe they are active off the rails, in the second video where you see the track swap the subsequent tacview show the missiles do nothing. From what I see most people fly pretty close together as a pair in DCS so you will probably see a lot of this.

 

I never flew in the F14 and my Radar was was way better in every regard to the F14B

Until TWS Auto is working it's kind of a pain however with the current Aim54 it may not matter that much. When it is fixed it will make my 2 videos irelavant I hope. I made them for my group as we had a few questions and a lot of RIOs in training including me.

 

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Thx for that WindyTX! I guess i have to work that elevation knob more now to keep the track on targets also. I just feel im loosing the track to often. But like you said when the TWS auto is working i guess it will be more easy to keep the target tracked on the TID...

[escaner]

Hmm what weapon are they using. This is rather a blunt statement and TBH not true I have flown against many F15 they certainly did not all lock at 10nm I rather wish they had.

 

 

LOL, it is amazing how every time I share some piece of info that I read in books, with pilots themselfs explaining it someone says that it is not true.

 

Happened with the ODS F-15 CAP configurations with 3 fuel tanks, with the ripple bombing in the F-18, with the uncage AIM-9 tactics etc.

 

 

Well, if you have any interest in reading it by yourself, get the book "Debrief" by Craig Brown, page 177. It is the story where (then) Cpt Hwang explains how he got his famous double kill in HDTWS with two AMRAAM and how he got criticized for failing to go STT inside of 10MN.

 

 

So those were the tactics back in the day (I don't know if they have changed or not, they use to do it from time to time), that is why I used a past tense in my first statement. Anyway, there were pilots that did not follow them? Of course, and Hwang is an example. As every rule, there is always people that break them.

Edited April 10, 2019 by escaner
Fixed typo

[WindyTX]

It's amazing that I try to give some information gleaned from experience and someone who read a book once will LOL at it.

 

Oh and the 10 mile STT is still b......cks

 

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Edited April 10, 2019 by WindyTX
Wondering why I bother

[SVgamer72]

It's amazing that I try to give some information gleaned from experience and someone who read a book once will LOL at it.

 

Oh and the 10 mile STT is still b......cks

 

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