[NEED TRACK REPLAY]Half of my JDAM's are missing?

[bunraku]

Hi

 

 

Have they done something to the JDAM's in recent patches?

I've just come back to the A-10C after a year away from it.

LGB's are hitting no problem, but half my JDAM's are hitting and the other half are 10's of metres away. It's very frustrating how some hit and some don't as I can't work out the problem.

Thanks

[Harlikwin]

That seems about right. JDAMs of the era you are talking about werent pinpoint accurate. LGBs were more accurate. Hence the development of terminal or laser seekers for JDAMs. Thats also not bringing TGP errors into the conversation.

Edited July 1, 2019 by Harlikwin

[Ramsay]

... half my JDAM's are hitting and the other half are 10's of metres away.

Please post a track, I had no issue last week in 2.5.5.32533 using DDMM.MMM (+/- 6ft).

 

Note: there was no wind, release was from 12,000 ft and all GBU-32 hit or fell within 10m (30ft) of their target.

[Harlikwin]

Please post a track, I had no issue last week in 2.5.5.32533 using DDMM.MMM (+/- 6ft).

 

Note: there was no wind, release was from 12,000 ft and all GBU-32 hit or fell within 10m (30ft) of their target.

 

Well the OSI spec is 43ft ;) when everything goes right.

[tom_19d]

I had asked a question very similar to the OP’s here just a couple weeks ago, because I too thought the the GBU-38 used to be a little more accurate.

 

Regardless of whether or not anything has changed, I have done quite a bit of testing in the current OB using a steerpoint placed in the editor directly under a T72, starting up the mission, dropping on the STPT, restarting, and repeating. From what I have seen, while the tank is damaged to some extent nearly every time, catastrophic kills are somewhere in the neighborhood or 2/3 or 3/4. Putting aside DCS modeling of area effects, given that a T72 is approximately 7 meters by 4 meters, this seems to me to be a realistic representation of the 38’s CEP.

 

To summarize, my current thinking is that even with near perfect target coordinates or a really well conducted designation with the pod converted into a steerpoint, the GBU 38 is still going to fail to K-Kill a tank somewhere between 25-33% of the time. Would the more seasoned A10 guys here see that as a fair assessment of the current state of the game, or is there something else I am missing?

[Harlikwin]

Well aside from the fact the tank would likely be moving and you would be using a jdam to hit it in the firat place :)

[tom_19d]

Well aside from the fact the tank would likely be moving and you would be using a jdam to hit it in the firat place :)

 

I’m guessing you meant to say “using a LGB in the first place,” (or maybe you meant to say I wouldn’t be using a JDAM) in which case I totally agree, but that wasn’t my question. My question was in regards to the current capabilities of the JDAM to hit a tank sized target under near ideal conditions.

[Harlikwin]

Tom, sorry my bad, spellcheck is important (I was on the phone). I meant wouldn't be using a JDAM for that. Maybe not a LGB, but at least those can hit movers. And 07 era JDAM "could" do it under ideal conditions with a static tank I suppose, and if not a kill then probably a mission kill at least. The 43ft number is the OSI upper bound error. Also your TGP has error that I'm fairly sure that is not actually modeled in DCS. So JDAM error + TGP error, it gets fun fast. That era harrier with that TGP couldn't actually produce coordinates accurate enough for JDAM employment outside of a few miles as an example. That's why they relied on 19D's for accurate coordinates for example ;)

[tom_19d]

No worries at all Harlikwin, I figured that is what you meant (and like I said, I agree on the tactics of what you are saying). I also agree with the near miss damage within a 30 - 40 foot radius, hopefully someday DCS will be able to do some component damage modeling for armor instead of the hit point type system. And I would say your comment on Army Reconnaissance is spot on, well played sir:)

[bunraku]

I'll post a track later. I used to have maybe 90% probability of getting a kill with a JDAM and now 50%. Some of these look to be a couple of 100ft out so very different.

[Yeti42]

Are you lasing the target and creating a mark point too far out? I think you need to be closer than 19 miles to get an accurate mark point...

[bunraku]

I never used to have to lase, although I do understand the principal of lasing the target to get accurate range, as opposed to the TGP looking through the target and using the terrain behind it. I did lase last night and same result.

 

 

I am not marking targets although again I have done this in the past and know how to do this. I am simply selecting a target and making my SPI and bombing the SPI.

 

 

I am seeing several posts on reddit stating that the JDAM model has changed since the hornet introduction. Is that true?

 

 

 

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/c5x1qb/jdam_accuracy_w_a10c/

 

 

Thanks

[Yeti42]

I never used to have to lase, although I do understand the principal of lasing the target to get accurate range, as opposed to the TGP looking through the target and using the terrain behind it. I did lase last night and same result.

 

 

I am not marking targets although again I have done this in the past and know how to do this. I am simply selecting a target and making my SPI and bombing the SPI.

 

 

I am seeing several posts on reddit stating that the JDAM model has changed since the hornet introduction. Is that true?

 

 

 

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/c5x1qb/jdam_accuracy_w_a10c/

 

 

Thanks

So, are you using waypoints for targets and the setting SPI....or are you entering coordinates manually? If you are selecting a target by making a waypoint SPI, make sure the waypoint height is set correctly, i.e at zero feet above the ground, trk file would be useful.... also the last time I dropped a GBU in the HOG was probably 3 years ago.... and it was very very accurate, too accurate in fact. They are meant to be good for an accuracy of 33 feet.

Edited July 1, 2019 by Yeti42

[bunraku]

So, are you using waypoints for targets and the setting SPI....or are you entering coordinates manually? If you are selecting a target by making a waypoint SPI, make sure the waypoint height is set correctly, i.e at zero feet above the ground, trk file would be useful.... also the last time I dropped a GBU in the HOG was probably 3 years ago.... and it was very very accurate, too accurate in fact. They are meant to be good for an accuracy of 33 feet.

 

 

 

Using China Hat Aft Long to slave TGP to Steerpoint and then manually searching for targets using TGP. Once target found changing TGP to Point mode and then TMS Up Long to set as SPI.

 

 

Thanks

[Ramsay]

Using China Hat Aft Long to slave TGP to Steerpoint and then manually searching for targets using TGP. Once target found changing TGP to Point mode and then TMS Up Long to set as SPI.

Without a track, it sounds like the only thing I'm doing different is setting the TGP as the SPI generator (TMS Forward-Long) before I start slewing it from the Steerpoint.

 

What are your target's altitude, mine were near sea level (33 ft) on the disused airfield near Kobuleti.

[Yeti42]

Using China Hat Aft Long to slave TGP to Steerpoint and then manually searching for targets using TGP. Once target found changing TGP to Point mode and then TMS Up Long to set as SPI.

 

 

Thanks

 

Make sure you lase it before you set it to SPI, you can latch laser on if you want to ensure it's firing when you mark the point.

[Pyle298]

Must be the Russians jamming GPS again :)

[bozflyer]

Hi

 

 

Have they done something to the JDAM's in recent patches?

I've just come back to the A-10C after a year away from it.

LGB's are hitting no problem, but half my JDAM's are hitting and the other half are 10's of metres away. It's very frustrating how some hit and some don't as I can't work out the problem.

Thanks

 

HI

 

Since last update my JDAMS loose target despite my correct TGP placement over Ammo depots and Shelter !!!

...static and big targets ! how do they miss so bad way ??? 3 of 4 boms missed they'r targets

[MasterZelgadis]

Check the HUD whether TGP is SPI Generator. The moment you release the TGP must be on the target and you should have lased the target

[Pyle298]

But JDAM is GPS guided, so why lase?

[MasterZelgadis]

But JDAM is GPS guided, so why lase?

 

To get the exact coordinates of your target. The database doesn't know there is a vehicle. If you are coming in very low, and put your TGP on the vehicle, the coordinates are from the elongated line of sight. Unless you put the TGP direclty on the ground below that vehicle of course.

[Pyle298]

but wouldnt a GBU or Maverick be better against moving tgts? Seriously wondering as I'm learning this whole attack aircraft thing :)

[MasterZelgadis]

but wouldnt a GBU or Maverick be better against moving tgts? Seriously wondering as I'm learning this whole attack aircraft thing :)

 

Yes, against moving targets you would not choose a JDAM

[Harlikwin]

But JDAM is GPS guided, so why lase?

 

To get accurate coordinates for it.

[j-tk]

Give it a lase squirt so the computer can figure out the 3d point in space, or you'll be shooting long or short.