Turn your Warthog into a force sensing stick for 79 cents!

[Boris]

While the thread title sounds ridiculous, i'm actually being serious. Well at least half serious - What I really mean is "make your Warthog behave and feel pretty much like a force sensing stick".

 

In anticipation of the F-16 module I have been thinking about how to achieve the best controls set up, the F-16 of course being the first module to feature a side-stick.

 

I only use a MongoosT50 base right now, so first I thought about just additionally mounting my old Warthog on the side and being able to switch grips when necessary. So far so good, the Warthog grip is a great representation of an F-16 grip, but the Warthog base has a lot of throw and doesn't at all behave like an F-16 stick should.

 

So naturally I looked for other options and came across the no doubt very good, but very expensive options from http://www.realsimulator.com

While this would be a great solution, 450€ is a lot of money.

 

One night, lying in bed, another solution popped into my head. To be honest, I didn't think it would work, but it's seemed so crazy, it just might work.

In any case, I had nothing to lose. The Warthog isn't my primary base and I've opened it up a few times before.

 

A couple of years ago my Warthog suffered the infamous o-ring problem so I scoured the internet for a replacement part. In my search for 64mm (outer diameter) rubber or plastic rings I came across this industrial product:

 

https://www.esska.de/shop/Dichtung-Zubehoer-Moertelkupplung-fuer-Groesse-25-35-50--230073x-4860?hlid=23007301

English:

https://www.esska-tech.co.uk/shop/Sealing-Accessories-Mortar-Coupler-For-Size-25-35-50--230073x-4860?anchor=anchorVariants&hlid=23007304

 

Make sure you get the 64mm part

 

Due to the low price I ordered it without hesitation, but ended up finding that it is way too thick for the Warthog as a viable o-ring replacement. It effectively immobilzed the stick eliminating any movement. The rubber seal went into a box somewhere to be forgotten, that is until now.

 

Lying in bed I remembered this and thought, that's pretty much how you would want a force sensing stick to feel. So how to generate the movement? It turns out the Warthog hall sensor has an incredibly high resolution - 65536 across the axis, compared to 256 with a CH.

Any tiny movement on the immobilzed stick would transfer to the sensor with a resolution that is still more than enough.

 

So this is what I did:

• I opened up the Warthog.
  
• I inserted the rubber ring part where the o-ring usually goes (it appears not to fit at first, but it squeezes in nicely).
  
• I left out the small springs to ensure more centering force.
  
• I closed her up again.
  
• I mounted the base to the side of my chair and attached the grip.
  
• Then of course I had to recalibrate. I first tried the Warthog calibration software but I quickly found that it wants you to fully deflect the axes in order to progress. So I just used the windows calibration tool. I deflected the axes as far as they would go with reasonable force and calibrated the stick to the new, (almost non-existent deflection) limits.
  

 

So how does it do in DCS? The answer is: Suprisingly well! So well in fact, that the result is satisfying enough to actually fly with. I tried the new pseudo force sensing stick with two FBW planes, the F-18 and the M2000 and it works like a charm.

 

I had to do a few things to improve the behavour though. The centering is not 100% perfect, but the stick does center ok, considering what I've done to it. In order to get around this I have set deadzones of 4 and curves of around 16. Other than that I have to say I'm incredibly pleased by the result of such a simple mod. I'm really stoked that it actually feels like I'm using a force sensing stick.

 

One small caveat that I have to mention: I did regrease the stick with nyogel in the past. It may be that the stick has too much sticktion for this to work with factory grease. Maybe a more slippery grease might improve centering. But who knows, maybe that's not necessary at all.

 

I hope this mod serves as inspiration to some of you and maybe a few people can also come up with some cleverer ideas to improve on this.

Edited July 25, 2019 by Boris

[Lobinjaevel]

How much deflection is there? Might try it with an old WH Base and compare it to my fssb :)

[Boris]

The deflection is so small it’s hardly noticeable. It almost feels like no deflection at all. It would be interesting to know how it compares, but I’m sure it won’t quite have the high precision of an FSSB.

[Boris]

Here's a quick video to demonstrate the effect of this mod in practice:

 

[Svend_Dellepude]

Hey! Thats not bad. I have a fssb on a cougar, but i might try this with my wh.

[Mike*Pirates Cove*]

I don’t know?. When DCS 1st came out so many years ago, I was using the Saitek X-65F( which is 100% force sensing) which I was using with FSX/P3D and and loved it. But in DCS, no matter what I did my aircraft were not flyable. They would spin out of control and crash every time. I was so frustrated I deleted all off my computer and never went back. Then last year when my group group decided to all switch to DCS, I was the odd man out. I explained I would like to switch but my controls would not comply. I re-downloaded it again to get it another try.... same result last.... I had the A-10C from previous purchase and I bought the Harrier.... same results, I could not get either aircraft to get off he ground or if I did they would immediately roll over and crash. Totally frustrated again I tried to seek an answer to my problem. I love the X-65 and had no issues with it in other sims. And it is as expensive as the Warthog when it came out. So after countless hours researching an answer and conferring with my colleagues and trying to find an an answer to my dilemma, I unplugged the joystick and got the Warthog. I didn’t need the throttle cause my X-65 throttle base worked just fine. Now I have the warthog stick and saitek throttle and all it good. So even though you’re thinking about making your stick force sensing... i’d Think twice before you tear apart your stick to do what this is suggested. What’s the old saying...” if it isn’t broke, don’t fix it”

Just my two cents ......

[Boris]

I don’t know?. When DCS 1st came out so many years ago, I was using the Saitek X-65F( which is 100% force sensing) which I was using with FSX/P3D and and loved it. But in DCS, no matter what I did my aircraft were not flyable. They would spin out of control and crash every time. I was so frustrated I deleted all off my computer and never went back. Then last year when my group group decided to all switch to DCS, I was the odd man out. I explained I would like to switch but my controls would not comply. I re-downloaded it again to get it another try.... same result last.... I had the A-10C from previous purchase and I bought the Harrier.... same results, I could not get either aircraft to get off he ground or if I did they would immediately roll over and crash. Totally frustrated again I tried to seek an answer to my problem. I love the X-65 and had no issues with it in other sims. And it is as expensive as the Warthog when it came out. So after countless hours researching an answer and conferring with my colleagues and trying to find an an answer to my dilemma, I unplugged the joystick and got the Warthog. I didn’t need the throttle cause my X-65 throttle base worked just fine. Now I have the warthog stick and saitek throttle and all it good. So even though you’re thinking about making your stick force sensing... i’d Think twice before you tear apart your stick to do what this is suggested. What’s the old saying...” if it isn’t broke, don’t fix it”

Just my two cents ......

 

 

I'm sorry you had such a bad experience with force sensing sticks and DCS.

 

This mod doesn't really turn the Warthog into a force sensing stick. It merely restricts the movement to have it act like one, pretty much just by adding a single part. This is possible thanks to the very sensitive hall sensor that is already in the Warthog.

 

The point of this mod is not to have a better stick overall, but to have a more realistic experience flying the F-16 Viper specifically.

I surely wouldn't recommend it to anyone who wants a better all round stick for all modules.

[Mike*Pirates Cove*]

Ok, I'm just expressing what i experienced with a true "Force Sensing Controller".. It didn't work for me and I'd like to here from anyone else that had a similar experience with the X-65F.. which is really a shame, I've for many years loved it in P3D and FSX. But luckily a friend bought the new Virpil system and sold me his warthog really cheap...(Thx Roy)

[Supmua]

I have never tried the X65F, but the FSSB R3 has been working really well for me—although I agree that it is sort of an acquired taste and there are people who don’t like it.

[Deano87]

Having used both the X65F and currently owning a FSSB R3L - They are not comparable.

[Sierra99]

I rebuilt 2 warthogs this weekend and replace the rubber O-rings with PTFE rings I got from a forum member. They are slightly thicker than the rubber ring (3mm) and it tightened up both sticks quite nicely...

 

It got me wondering if using a thicker ring might work for the Viper... Now I have my answer...

[Boris]

I'm told that shipping of the part to US and many other countries is in excess of 60 dollars, which is completely ridiculous.

 

 

Shipping to Germany is only 4,90€. If there are any others who would like me to order for them, I will order a batch and then distribute by mail.

Depending on how many are interested, posting by letter (and divided shipping costs from the supplier) will only cost a couple of €.

[epolta]

I'm told that shipping of the part to US and many other countries is in excess of 60 dollars, which is completely ridiculous.

 

 

Shipping to Germany is only 4,90€. If there are any others who would like me to order for them, I will order a batch and then distribute by mail.

Depending on how many are interested, posting by letter (and divided shipping costs from the supplier) will only cost a couple of €.

 

Boris,

 

per my PM count me in!

I'm surprised you haven't had any other interested.

thanks for offering to do this!

Erik

[Tanö]

Thank you for sharing this!

 

 

i tried it yesterday but it dosen´t work for me. With the 64mm O-ring in, i can fully move the Stick but it dosen´t center anymore. So the stick stay in it´s position where i left it.

 

 

 

In this Video, you can see the O-Ring:

Is it that one you replased?

Edited August 16, 2019 by Tanö

[sparkchaser2010]

Possible U.S. source?

 

https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-Cylinder-Piston-Black-Rubber/dp/B008BXZ9X6

[Boris]

Thank you for sharing this!

 

 

i tried it yesterday but it dosen´t work for me. With the 64mm O-ring in, i can fully move the Stick but it dosen´t center anymore. So the stick stay in it´s position where i left it.

 

 

 

In this Video, you can see the O-Ring:

Is it that one you replased?

 

Yes, that's the o-ring. That's really strange that is doesn't work for you. You used exactly the part I suggested? It should push the gimbal down tightly, so that almost no movement is possible. It might be that the thickness of the part has changed since I ordered. What may help is to put certain amount of extra spacer under new thick o-ring. Also make sure the upper dome side of the gimbal is completely free of any lubrication.

 

Possible U.S. source?

 

https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-Cylinder-Piston-Black-Rubber/dp/B008BXZ9X6

 

You'd need a part with 64mm outer diameter so I doubt it will fit properly.

[Tanö]

Yay, i got it.. i just use 2 of the 64mm rings. It works realy fine now!!!

 

 

 

Thank you again for sharing this!!!

[bcl816]

Whats the exact name of the part? just 64mm mortar coupling seal?

[streakeagle]

You get one of the highest resolution sticks available on the market... and rescale it to use a small fraction of the available bit-resolution to feel like a force sensitive stick. If it makes you happy, go for it. But I was always disappointed that the Warthog claimed 16-bit resolution and only had 14-bit resolution.

[adirtynurse]

This is a great mod! Just done it this week and with calibration and curves in-game. Its perfect. Like I imagined it. Can do AAR easy, so its accurate enough for me. Thanks again to the OP for coming up with this mod.

[Hempstead]

I wonder how much resolution you get out of this... have you ever tested it under joytester2 or something similar? Have you tried to do F-16 A2A refueling with it? Are you turning your 14bit joystick into an 8bit or even worse stick? I don't know. Please share the resolution you got out of it.

 

[sniperpr1]

Is there a way of ordering this from the US? Is it better to wait for the Thrustmaster AVA?

 

Thanks

[sniperpr1]

What are the complete dimensions of the ring. I am planing on making them, because I cannot order them.

[sniperpr1]

What is the needed inside diameter and how rigid must it be?