Mirage 2000C RDI S5-2C. IRL - AG focus

[Schmidtfire]

I read this in the NVG thread:

”Mirage 2000C RDI S5-2C.

NVG in operational use since at least 2015 when EC 2/5 put emphasis on AG which was previously secondary. Cockpit has been adapted accordingly.”

 

Im a bit curious about the EC 2/5 AG focus. What type of loadouts and munitions is generally used? (on the M2000C variant we have in DCS)

 

If LGB are commonly used, have they added some other equipment IRL like a pod or a laser spot tracker?

[Steph21]

From what i've read, Canon and up to 4xGBU-12.

They fly with Mirage 2000D who are doing the spotting.

 

Mirage 2000C provide A/G Canon support that the Mirage 2000D can't provide (yet) as well as additionnal GBU-12 load.

 

They are not equipped with any LTD/R or LST device as far as i know.

[myHelljumper]

They are called "camions a bombes" -> bomb truck :).

[jojo]

From what i've read, Canon and up to 4xGBU-12.

They fly with Mirage 2000D who are doing the spotting.

 

Mirage 2000C provide A/G Canon support that the Mirage 2000D can't provide (yet) as well as additionnal GBU-12 load.

 

They are not equipped with any LTD/R or LST device as far as i know.

 

That’s it :thumbup:

 

 

GBU-12 is kind of do all AG weapon in NATO. In most cases it’s good enough and the cheapest guided bomb.

Yes 4 GBU-12 load out is open. But you only carry 4 when you have a deliberate target in mind which needs that much.

 

You will mostly see 2 x GBU-12 for CAS.

[Schmidtfire]

Thanks for the information :) I find this highly interesting. Seems like an expensive CAS solution bringing a Mirage 2000C for cannon and extra GBU’s. However I realize that the cannon can be a really important tool during CAS missions.

[QuiGon]

Thanks for the information :) I find this highly interesting. Seems like an expensive CAS solution bringing a Mirage 2000C for cannon and extra GBU’s. However I realize that the cannon can be a really important tool during CAS missions.

Why is it expensive? It's seems like an extremly cheap CAS asset to me as it doesn't need a fancy TGP and is a more simple aircraft avionics wise then all the fancy multirole jets out there, which should make it relatively cheap to operate.

[Schmidtfire]

I mean it sounds expensive to use two jets just to get additional GBU’s and a cannon.

[QuiGon]

I mean it sounds expensive to use two jets just to get additional GBU’s and a cannon.

How else do you want to bring additional weapons if not with a 2nd aircraft? Besides that, fighter jets pretty much never operate alone.

[MrDieing]

This also allows them to deploy their 2000D's more efficiently. You can do with one designating platform just fine anyway in a CAS situation.

[Harlikwin]

Realistically it sounds like a cost saving measure really. Your choice is use two or more expensive 2000D's or use a single 2000D and a few cheaper bomb truck 2000C's and you save in terms of maintenance and flight hours/ wear and tear on the more expensive/complex airframes while getting the last few miles out of your existing -C fleet which you aren't using anyway.

[Schmidtfire]

The French probably has good reason behind this setup. I find it really cool, but seems more like a way to overcome the 2000D's lack of a cannon, not a cost saving measure.

 

It would be cheaper just using one aircraft (with a cannon). That's my point. If the Mirage 2000D had a cannon, there is not much use of the additional Mirage 2000C. Sure, more GBU's but how many of those do they need to drop on a bunch of ragtag guerilla fighters during a CAS sortie?

If Mirage 2000D gets a gunpod it sounds like the Mirage 2000C won't really add anything to the table. Unless doctrine states there has to be two or more aircrafts performing CAS together.

 

Anyways, just my toughts and speculations. Again, find this setup cool and interesting:)

[Harlikwin]

Yeah, the cannon is probably an additional capability they might like to have. But if you can save flight time on on more expensive airframes and "use up" your cheaper airframes thats a real world cost consideration as well. Outside of DCS things cost real money ;)

[jojo]

The French probably has good reason behind this setup. I find it really cool, but seems more like a way to overcome the 2000D's lack of a cannon, not a cost saving measure.

 

It would be cheaper just using one aircraft (with a cannon). That's my point. If the Mirage 2000D had a cannon, there is not much use of the additional Mirage 2000C. Sure, more GBU's but how many of those do they need to drop on a bunch of ragtag guerilla fighters during a CAS sortie?

If Mirage 2000D gets a gunpod it sounds like the Mirage 2000C won't really add anything to the table. Unless doctrine states there has to be two or more aircrafts performing CAS together.

 

Anyways, just my toughts and speculations. Again, find this setup cool and interesting:)

 

Fighters always fly at least by pair.

So if it wasn't a Mirage 2000C, it would be second Mirage 2000D.

In the past Mirage F1 CR/ CT and Mirage 2000N was also used in this role before retirement.

 

Mirage 2000D fleet is over tasked since the beginning.

So Mirage 2000C use as wingman has 2 benefits:

- save Mirage 2000D airframe life.

- brings a pair of 30mm gun.

 

Yet Mirage 2000D upgrade is underway and it should receive a 30mm gun pod on the opposite of TGP.

[Schmidtfire]

Ok in that case it makes a lot of sense. I didn't know that CAS is flown as pairs.

[jojo]

Ok in that case it makes a lot of sense. I didn't know that CAS is flown as pairs.

 

Almost any mission.

 

QRA for Air Police can take off alone. But it is over highly populated mother land. If it goes down because of failure, it's fast to find it.

 

In hostile desert territory, you need a wingman to send you rescue, or just call out for missile launch during your CAS attack run.

[QuiGon]

Ok in that case it makes a lot of sense. I didn't know that CAS is flown as pairs.

Fighters fly pretty much EVERYTHING in pairs (at least). Besides that, cannons are probably not as important for CAS as you may think. They definitely are important, but so are LGB's which get used quiet a lot for that as well.

 

 

Almost any mission.

 

QRA for Air Police can take off alone. But it is over highly populated mother land. If it goes down because of failure, it's fast to find it.

 

In hostile desert territory, you need a wingman to send you rescue, or just call out for missile launch during your CAS attack run.

QRA is usally done in pairs as well, so one aircraft can take up a position next to the intercepted aircraft to get visual with its pilot, while the other aircraft takes up a position behind the intercepted aircraft to keep an eye on the situation and provide cover.

Edited August 13, 2019 by QuiGon

[jojo]

Fighters fly pretty much EVERYTHING in pairs (at least). Besides that, cannons are probably not as important for CAS as you may think. They definitely are important, but so are LGB's which get used quiet a lot for that as well.

 

 

 

QRA is usally done in pairs as well, so one aircraft can take up a position next to the intercepted aircraft to get visual with its pilot, while the other aircraft takes up a position behind the intercepted aircraft to keep an eye on the situation and provide cover.

 

It depends on the alert. I’m talking about QRA in France, most of the time it’s assistance for civilian aircraft and QRA would launch a single aircraft to assist.

 

But yes, when Russian bombers get lost off the cost of Normandie or across the Channel they launch in pair.

[QuiGon]

It depends on the alert. I’m talking about QRA in France, most of the time it’s assistance for civilian aircraft and QRA would launch a single aircraft to assist.

Interesting, because here in Germany they always go up in pairs, even when intercepting civilian airliners. That's actually the case that I described in my previous comment, how they intercept civilian aircraft that have lost comms or other emergencies.

 

Here for example: https://theaviationist.com/2017/02/20/dramatic-footage-shows-luftwaffe-typhoons-escorting-boeing-777-gone-silent-over-germany/

 

Edited August 13, 2019 by QuiGon

[Harlikwin]

Ok in that case it makes a lot of sense. I didn't know that CAS is flown as pairs.

 

:cry:

[Harlikwin]

Fighters fly pretty much EVERYTHING in pairs (at least).

 

:thumbup:

 

Lots of good reasons for that.