F-18 BFM

[Fuelburner]

I watched several videos about that topic including the art of kill.

 

Anyhow I didn’t find any information at what speeds to fly the maneuvers.

 

Apparently there are at least 2 different scenarios important for a dogfight.

A minimum radius turn and a maximum rate turn depending if its a one or two circle turn.

 

Here’s my question. How do I technically fly these turns ?

What are the corresponding speeds and or AOA for values for the hornet ?

 

Best regards

 

 

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[GGTharos]

Those are great questions, and unfortunately the answer is 'it depends'

 

Rule of thumb: If the opposing aircraft has a bit more smash than you at the merge, go minimum radius.

If you can rate a lot better than a similar speed compared to him, go max rate.

 

Min radius is preferred for experience, max rate can be preferable for employing HOBS missiles.

 

We're barely scratching the surface here though - BFM is a gigantic topic and those two scenarios are more like two basic tools, not scenarios. The scenarios in which either of those are appropriate are really fluid; you're probably thinking only about the first turn and, if you win it and you win the fight, great! But if you don't, what next?

[Wizard_03]

Thing to remember about the hornet is once you spend your energy, your not going to be able to earn it back very quickly. So if you go for broke on max rate, make sure you can for sure get the kill and no else is around, because it’ll severely limit your follow on options.

 

That being said, low and slow is the hornets game, so minimum radius might be your most effective tool in most situations. But it depends. Personally I try to take fights downstairs as soon as possible, and force an overshoot out of the enemy. Use their acceleration against them.

 

To answer your actual questions, look for the EM charts online (can’t post them) and see if you can find a good way to remember the curves so you can reference the right speed for the right altitude and situation. But 350 to 375 is the magic number for max ITR in most altitudes below 25k

Edited August 27, 2019 by Wizard_03

[Akula]

I royally suck at dog fighting so I usually just try to turn as tight as I can without bleeding energy so I can save a hard energy turn for when I really need it. Sometimes it works but I need to work on my out thinking skills. lol

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Here’s my question. How do I technically fly these turns ?

What are the corresponding speeds and or AOA for values for the hornet ?

 

Theoretical starting points: For best radius, as slow as you can get away with. For best rate, merge at corner speed (350 - 375 as Wizard_03 says is a good place to start) and pull hard, then relax back pressure until you reach best sustained turn speed (250kts? don't have a number off the top of my head).

 

Best speeds vary with altitude/weight etc, so don't worry about trying to remember exact figures.

[Preendog]

If bad thing is close but not in front of you:

 

Go fast. Not too much.

 

Put thing on lift vector and pull.

 

If blackout, point more at sky. If buffet, point more at ground.

 

Shoot a thing.

 

Winning.

 

PS. if bad thing points at you move out of the way.

[=475FG= Dawger]

The biggest mistake is allowing the neutral merge.

 

Maneuver to create turning room for an aggressive lead turn that begins prior to the merge. Grab all the angles you can before that first merge and the fight is mostly over if your opponent doesn't recognize and respond appropriately.

[Gosling]

WOW - THis is a MASSIVE subject and every situation needs to be judged on its merits... Type of enemy, his energy, your energy, his weapons, yours, Height, terrain, etc etc etc.

 

I can only recommend this......

 

Read as a minimum Chapter 1 of this book, but read on once you have read Chapter 1 at least three times.....

 

Fighter Combat: Tactics and Manoeuvring

[Kid18120]

Fighter Combat: Tactics and Manoeuvring

An awesome read that should be mandatory for any pilot including virtual ones :smartass:

[DeltaMike]

My feeling so far is, the most important basic skill is stall practice, absolutely critical to understand the jet's handling right on the edge of a stall, and how to recover. Main thing is, yanking back on the stick doesn't make it go up, and giving it gas doesn't make it go right away. Gotta know how to trade altitude for speed.

 

Cool thing about the F18 is, you still have rudder authority even when you aren't technically flying. Among other things you're less likely to just hang there like a sitting duck when you get slow, you can snap the nose around and get going. Bad news is, you'll be on the receiving end of a lot of ground kills until you learn how to manage your energy.

 

If you haven't seen this

definitely watch it.

1. When you are nose-to-tail (two-circle) it's basically a race to see who can get around a circle the fastest. Note, going fast and going around a circle fast are two different things. You want to be at corner speed, which is somewhere around 400kts.

2. When you are nose to nose (one circle), as a general rule the slowest guy wins, you're trying to tuck in behind the bad guy. Just don't get too slow and stall out, or give the guy turning room where he can get his nose on you.

 

There's an important comment buried in the video, "this is a descending fight." Under some circumstances slow is good, but I don't see where low is ever good in a Hornet.

 

Finally it's important to understand how the geometry of the fight plays out in the vertical. For one, how you can turn more sharply over the top than through the bottom. Practice your vertical, figure out when you need to flip and still have enough speed to fly.

 

To me the key advantage of the F18 is its nose authority as slow speeds. Key disadvantage is in the vertical. You can do some cool stuff in the vertical, you can snap it around right quick, a split-S can get you out of trouble sometimes. But there's just no way to chase an F14 or F15 (or the AI) to the top, gotta think of something else

[majapahit]

200-250 kts / 370-400kts respectively

 

you set the pace(s) and plane(s) as defender, your goal now is to first equalize the odds through persistence, then be alert and clever and turn the tables when opportunity arises. Now it's the other guys turn.

[Fuelburner]

WOW - THis is a MASSIVE subject and every situation needs to be judged on its merits... Type of enemy, his energy, your energy, his weapons, yours, Height, terrain, etc etc etc.

 

I can only recommend this......

 

Read as a minimum Chapter 1 of this book, but read on once you have read Chapter 1 at least three times.....

 

Fighter Combat: Tactics and Manoeuvring

 

Holy shit.... more than 400 pages... :cry::cry::cry:

[maxTRX]

If bad thing is close but not in front of you:

 

Go fast. Not too much.

 

Put thing on lift vector and pull.

 

If blackout, point more at sky. If buffet, point more at ground.

 

Shoot a thing.

 

Winning.

 

PS. if bad thing points at you move out of the way.

 

That's the BFM curriculum in my "academy" too...

[CBStu]

Does the FA-18 fly by wire impose max elevator up movement under any circumstances? I see there are limits on Gs but this seems different. I ask because I get two different reactions and I can't figure the reason. I am new at this so not understanding it. Consider I have a Mig behind me and try to do a tight turn, nose on or near the horizon for the entire turn. I generally go to full throttle and pull the stick back. Some times I see the speed dropping so I let up on the pull if I go under 300. Other times I see the speed slowly increasing. Some times I start greying out so release some pressure. Some times no grey out occurs. The initial speed has an effect I think but not sure. And yeah, I agree the 18 doesn't have much power. I can't out run any of the planes I go against in the provided missions and if speed drops below 300 it takes a LONG time for it to build back.

[=475FG= Dawger]

Does the FA-18 fly by wire impose max elevator up movement under any circumstances? I see there are limits on Gs but this seems different. I ask because I get two different reactions and I can't figure the reason. I am new at this so not understanding it. Consider I have a Mig behind me and try to do a tight turn, nose on or near the horizon for the entire turn. I generally go to full throttle and pull the stick back. Some times I see the speed dropping so I let up on the pull if I go under 300. Other times I see the speed slowly increasing. Some times I start greying out so release some pressure. Some times no grey out occurs. The initial speed has an effect I think but not sure. And yeah, I agree the 18 doesn't have much power. I can't out run any of the planes I go against in the provided missions and if speed drops below 300 it takes a LONG time for it to build back.

 

Unload the airplane to accelerate. That means maintain zero G.

 

Throttle response is extremely poor in the DCS FA18 so you need to be well ahead of the fight when it comes to throttle control.