New F-22A Raptor Video: BEWARE Su Pilots and Fanbois

[RvETito]

Well I found it as a bad taste to demonstrate your strong patriotism here where the subject is Lock On but it's your call. I also have my patriotic feelings but I don't spray them around first because I believe this is not the right place to do it and second because these are my feeling that concern only me and my country, I don't expect anyone else to agree with them. Although I respect your position I think it's better to keep it for you and spare us the annoying 'my country is better than yours' flamewar.

 

Back on toipic- I'm not questioning the 'eventual' domination of the F-22 in the sky. It's the only one 5th generation aircraft that has the most advanced technology implemented but it's still far from perfection. How would you explain this:

 

Flight International:

 

Bomb test flameout nearly crashes F-22

By Stephen Trimble

 

A key new weapon for the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor has started a new series of tests despite a recent in-flight crash scare.

 

The Boeing GBU-39 Small Diameter Bomb (SDB) began separation tests on the F-22 in early September after more than a year of sometimes difficult work to integrate the weapon in the weapons bay and carry out airborne captive carry tests, Maj Jack Fischer, a USAF test pilot, told the Society of Experimental Test Pilots' annual convention.

 

Flight tests so far have produced a few in-flight problems, including one particular event that "could have been very bad", Fischer said.

 

In that incident, an F-22 suffered a brief, dual-engine flameout while performing a negative-g, 360 degree roll with eight SDBs loaded in the weapons bay. The flameout occurred because the aircraft entered the manoeuvre with an incorrect trim setting.

 

Although the engines restarted before the pilot was even aware of the problem, the momentary power loss dropped the telemetry signals to the control room on the ground.

 

The control staff lost contact "with the aircraft pointed down toward the water at a very low altitude", said Capt Harris Hall, a programme official. "For a time, we thought the aircraft was lost."

 

However, the engines were restarted almost immediately and the pilot remained in control of the aircraft, he said. The pilot landed at Edwards AFB, California, without incident. The dual-engine flameout was not discovered until flight engineers reviewed performance data from the flight.

 

Integrating the 250lb (113kg)-class SDB is key to making the F-22 a more effective air-to-ground weapons platform, displacing two 2,000lb Joint Direct Attack Munitions with eight, "extreme stand-off" guided bombs in the internal weapons bay, Fischer said.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2007/10/01/217306/bomb-test-flameout-nearly-crashes-f-22.html

 

Dual engine flameout.... during 360' roll... Doesn't seem that glorious to me. And I would appreciate if someone could explain to me what (incorrect) trim settings have to do with engines?

[Mugatu]

negative-g, 360 degree roll with eight SDBs sounds more glorious to me! Must have cut the airflow to the engines.

 

 

...

 

Dual engine flameout.... during 360' roll... Doesn't seem that glorious to me. And I would appreciate if someone could explain to me what (incorrect) trim settings have to do with engines?

[RvETito]

Leading to a flameout? Right... And someone said how crazy the russians and western europeans are... One thing I believe- things are never black or white, they're always grey.

[Mugatu]

Must have enterened into an untested area of the FCS, they don't say how many negative G btw :P Flight Manual probably states reset trims before blah blah blah ... or they missed an entry.

 

 

Leading to a flameout? Right... And someone said how crazy the russians and western europeans are... One thing I believe- things are never black or white, they're always grey.

[Rhino104]

I'm wondering if the trim problem has something to do with the engine nozzles being directly tied in with the elevators? There are so many nooks and crannys on that thing that I can't even begin to imagine what they are and what they do.

 

Regarding the "my country is better than yours thing", it was never my intention to come on here and say "America pwns all others and you all stink." I just take a great pride in what we have come up with, and since I was at this particular show, and I couldnt help but think that hey, we've got something now that can rival what the Russians have with super-maneuverability. I never intended this thread to get hostile, just a little poking and having fun was all I was trying to accomplish. A flame war was not what I wanted to start. I just get a little defensive when people start downing our country. It seems like there is enough Soviet/Russian glorification in here, I wanted to show we had some pride in our air force as well.

[RvETito]

Copy that Rhino. As I already told you I respect your position no matter I like it or not. Everyone is free to have his/her own patriotic feelings, I just don't like the way people do it online- hiding behind the anonymity of the internet people often become really great patriots :) And I'm not talking about you or somebody else in particular, I mean in general. I neither appreciate how the russian/european aircraft are cheered sometimes.

 

If you look back into this forum you'll see that every F-22 thread eventualy leads in the same direction. The question is how many pages it would need for the flamewar to start. I bet LM haven't imagined what their invention will cause in the net :D Or perhaps that's just it's next feature ;)

[zaelu]

... I never intended this thread to get hostile, just a little poking and having fun was all I was trying to accomplish. A flame war was not what I wanted to start. I just get a little defensive when people start downing our country. ....

 

Man, is that word "PRIDE" that makes a big screeeeech. Nobody said something about your country... your country is made of its people, without them would be nothing but barren land... with some F-22 getting dust :D .

Being proud that you are different than the other one is just one step to being xenophobic.

 

People are the same... only their whishes and hopes separates them... and sometimes lust.

[LawnDart]

Compare USAF F-16 demos to the Netherlands' for example - what a difference! In general, I find European demos the most exciting with a good balance of power, grace and clean execution. Russian demos are also quite distinctive to me as the most stylish, almost dance-like, but the least exciting.

 

I agree 100%! The US demos are all tactical demos of the jets. If you've ever seen the difference between the US Viper Demo team and the US Lockheed Martin demo (manufacturer's) it is night and day. The military tends to show its war capabilities and tactical application with a few aerobatic moves built in, where as the manufacturer (which in many cases resembles the Netherlands demo team) show off the capabilities of the airplane in efforts to display what the plane can do ("sell" the plane).

 

The manufacturer demos rule IMHO! I saw the Belgian Air Force fly last year and their F-16 demo was under wing loading and high AoA almost the entire demo. Loved it!

 

 

I saw this Raptor demo as posted on page 1, earlier this year. It is impressive, yet at the same somewhat boring in the sense already described. The airplane, if put to the test (manufacturer flying) could certainly do so much more.

 

Being proud that you are different than the other one is just one step to being xenophobic.

 

That's taking it a little far! Being proud of your culture, heritage or accomplishments of fellow people from your region of the world doesn't mean you automatically fear other people in any way. I'm a dual citizen (Swedish & American) and I'm proud of certain things from both parts of the world I have personal connections to. It doesn't make me any more fearful of other countries on the planet, just that I have no feeling of personal connection to their acheivements or citizens.

 

Lastly, I do believe the F-22 is a far more advanced fighter and capable of so much more than they show in the "tactical" demo, hence I still like the SU demos better. The Russians still have a knack for beautiful displays of their fighters more so than the US military if you ask me. Although I'd still go see ANY air show ANY day! :thumbup:

[tflash]

As a matter of fact, it is quite difficult for the Raptor to "show" at an airshow what it is best at: being stealthy!

 

You can imagine the commentary "The aircraft that you did NOT see supercruising at angels 30 to your left has by now long gone to an other airshow"

[Weta43]

"The aircraft that you did NOT see supercruising at angels 30 to your left has by now long gone to an other airshow"

 

:-)

[Frazer]

@LD

I don't think the F-22 is capable of much more than they show in this display. It is prettey much all you can do with up/down thrust vectoring.

 

@Any

It's nice to see the F-22 doing the tail slide without stalling its engines, first US plane capable of doing that I guess :P

I've been to MAKS this year and to me this display was nice, but not that impressive, the Russians are still nr 1 with their fighter jets if you talk about maneuverability.

Ofcourse the F-22 has stealth, though the Russians say their radars are strong enough to see the F-22 anyway. The newest Su aircrafts are also capable of supercruise.

 

So, which plane is better?

Well I think it will come down to the pilot and his/her training (like it always did).

 

@All

But lets hope we can discuss this into eternity, and never find out.....