More infos on jf17 fuel?

[-P51DMustang-]

Hi guys, in your récent videos we clearly saw that JF was carrying 5300lbs internal and engine parameter, like in hornet, can be found on left mfd (while under it in f18). We got rpm on left gauge, heat on mid gauge, total fuel on left bar, feed (is that fuel flow?! Seems pretty stable) and under those we got 2 fuel tank gauge.

So my question is where is fuel flow and what is approximative FF around buster loaded and not loaded.

I Just want to estimate range and efficiency of the Chine se rework rd33.

 

In other post someone said that with 3tanks JF got a slightly better range than f18 3 tanks and f16 with its 2 biggest (huuuuuuuge) tank.

[backspace340]

Feed is tank 2, can see that on this screen shot:

 

[-P51DMustang-]

Oh so feed is the total fuel of the tank you are using. And you got 5 fuel tanks?! 4/5 = Wings and 1/2/3 are fuselage (main) fuel tanks. But still i dont see any Fuel flow gauge to get an idea estimate easily your autonomy.

In F14 you get FF in Lbs/h (wich is most easy to use to calculate how long you get) and in f18 fpas help you but you still got fuel flow in lbs/min

Edited September 24, 2019 by -P51DMustang-

[-P51DMustang-]

Btw... If anyone got answer about potential HMD on JF. I know HMD like hornet/F16 is only plan IRL on block III but i was wondering if JF get a rudimental/basic HMD like su27 and mig29 for its infrared (fox2) missiles wich allow in dogfight to compensate lack of AOA or avoid pull too much g's and keep corner speed :)

[AeriaGloria]

No HMD, infrared missiles are PL-5EII equivalent to a late model but pre-X sidewinder

[L0op8ack]

Btw... If anyone got answer about potential HMD on JF. I know HMD like hornet/F16 is only plan IRL on block III but i was wondering if JF get a rudimental/basic HMD like su27 and mig29 for its infrared (fox2) missiles wich allow in dogfight to compensate lack of AOA or avoid pull too much g's and keep corner speed :)

 

We implemented one, but HMD is not installed for JF-17 Block I/II in RL.

We just disabled it now, may the HMD come back in the future:)

[AeriaGloria]

So DCS: JF-17 code is as flexible as the real one:)

[-P51DMustang-]

We implemented one, but HMD is not installed for JF-17 Block I/II in RL.

We just disabled it now, may the HMD come back in the future

well... I would be the first glad of it... Hope as paf modernise its blck 1 and 2 to match blck 3 avionics including new aesa radar and hmds from j10 and j20 ... You could at this time add at least HMD :)

 

If i may ask, does jf17 comes with HMD possibility stock but paf didnt need it or is it something "new" and could be upgrade like F16 and F18 get it during upgrade phasis.

[L0op8ack]

well... I would be the first glad of it... Hope as paf modernise its blck 1 and 2 to match blck 3 avionics including new aesa radar and hmds from j10 and j20 ... You could at this time add at least HMD :)

 

If i may ask, does jf17 comes with HMD possibility stock but paf didnt need it or is it something "new" and could be upgrade like F16 and F18 get it during upgrade phasis.

 

it was planned since the prototype.

without proper IR missile, it make no sense to install HMD in RL mission.

but the HMD switch on AAP was reserved, I think it's a wise decision.

[AeriaGloria]

It would be interesting if export customers made use of this

[-P51DMustang-]

Well really interesting loopack. :) Since PL5E II are something around AIM9M... And HMD is available in hornet with those sidewinders (minus a really tinier angle of shot something 40 degrés each aide) its still nice to use in dogfight to gain those few degres corner speed dont allow u to take.

But as in real life this situation occur only few time, there may be no need. But does that mean JF17 Block III will receive new fox2... Mmmhh lets wait and see. Maybe they add J10/J20 HMD only for all other uses (including BVR, Bore mod, A/G HMD support)

[amalahama]

Hi! Do we have some sort of block fuel calculator like the FPAS in the Hornet, computing optimum Mach/altitude, max range at current speed/alt, etc?

[LJQCN101]

The JF-17 doesn't have any fuel flow indication unfortunately. It does have a FPAS-alike page though, but will be included later in the early access process.

 

With 3 external tanks + 2 PL5E when doing a 0.8 mach cruise at 36000ft, FF can be as low as 1830lbs/h. But if you consider a whole climb, cruise and descend process, the total ferry range can reach 3500km.

 

At sea level @ 1.0 mach with full AB in combat mode (engine work mode), FF is around 57000lbs/h.

Edited September 24, 2019 by LJQCN101

[spiddx]

There is only one engine.

[AeriaGloria]

Nice to hear it has a higher Q limit than the MiG-21, being able to go supersonic at low altitudes. Shame about now fuel flow indication. I’m sure we won’t run out of things to put on all that glass

[ShadowFrost]

the 1100 liter drop tanks carry about 3300 lbs right?

 

if so, combat load (2x 1100 tanks, 2x PL5E, 4x SD-10, 1x Jammer pod) allows about ~11,800lbs of total fuel.

 

 

assuming average FF between 15,000 - 25,000lbs/h per engine, that gives a flight time of roughly 14-24 minutes.

 

Add another 2400 lbs if you switch the Jammer out with the 800 litter center tank.. adds another 3-5 minutes of flight time (assuming an average FF of 15 to 25k lbs/h)

 

I think the weight per liter for fuel in your calculation needs checking. Total aircraft weight for fuel is approximately 10,300lbs. 3000 liters internally, 3000 liters externally. ~5150lbs of fuel internally, so fuel weight per liter is 1.71 lb per liter. Obviously, my used data could be wrong, should only be taken as approximate.

 

Sources :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAC/PAC_JF-17_Thunder

https://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/fc1xiaolongjf17thund/

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/jf-17s-ferry-and-combat-ranges.462726/

https://quwa.org/2017/08/31/profile-avic-pac-jf-17-thunder/

Edited September 25, 2019 by ShadowFrost

[Beamscanner]

There is only one engine.

 

HAHA I never really looked at the back. thanks!

 

I think the weight per liter for fuel in your calculation needs checking. Total aircraft weight for fuel is approximately 10,300lbs. 3000 liters internally, 3000 liters externally. ~5150lbs of fuel internally, so fuel weight per liter is 1.71 lb per liter. Obviously, my used data could be wrong, should only be taken as approximate.

 

Yeah, I didn't see the total internal fuel on that page.

 

I made my estimates on liters (of jet fuel) to lbs using F/A-18 data.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_F/A-18_Hornet

 

"3× under-fuselage with a capacity of 13,700 lb (6,200 kg) external fuel"

 

"up to 3× 330 US gallons (1,200 l; 270 imp gal) Sargent Fletcher FPU-8/A drop tanks"

 

13,700/3 tanks = 4567 lbs

 

4567 lbs / 330 gallons = 13.8 lbs per gallon

 

13.8 / 3.78 = 3.65 lbs per liter

 

1100 liter fuel tank x 3.65 lbs = 4015 lbs fuel per tank

 

Not sure where I went wrong. But if the total fuel is 10,300 something I did botched up everything. maybe Wikipedia messed up on the 13,700 lbs from 3 tanks quote.

Edited September 26, 2019 by Beamscanner

[ShadowFrost]

 

Yeah, I didn't see the total internal fuel on that page.

 

I made my estimates on liters (of jet fuel) to lbs using F/A-18 data.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_F/A-18_Hornet

 

"3× under-fuselage with a capacity of 13,700 lb (6,200 kg) external fuel"

 

"up to 3× 330 US gallons (1,200 l; 270 imp gal) Sargent Fletcher FPU-8/A drop tanks"

 

13,700/3 tanks = 4567 lbs

 

4567 lbs / 330 gallons = 13.8 lbs per gallon

 

13.8 / 3.78 = 3.65 lbs per liter

 

1100 liter fuel tank x 3.65 lbs = 4015 lbs fuel per tank

 

Not sure where I went wrong. But if the total fuel is 10,300 something I did botched up everything. maybe Wikipedia messed up on the 13,700 lbs from 3 tanks quote.

 

Always a chance my sources are wrong, but the fuels can have different densities but I imagine even with that it wouldn't make for that sort of margin of error. So I don't know, maybe the fuel density on wiki is wrong for the F/A-18?

Either way, in regards to JF-17, your not working with as much fuel as you first imagined :) AFAIK

[Beamscanner]

Always a chance my sources are wrong, but the fuels can have different densities but I imagine even with that it wouldn't make for that sort of margin of error. So I don't know, maybe the fuel density on wiki is wrong for the F/A-18?

Either way, in regards to JF-17, your not working with as much fuel as you first imagined :) AFAIK

 

Well I also thought there was 2 engines, so that whole post was jacked up :doh:

[AeriaGloria]

Hey you would’ve been close if calculating for FC-31! Though I don’t think we know it’s internal fuel yet

Edited September 27, 2019 by AeriaGloria

[jojo]

Typical Jet A1 density is 0.79 kg/l (of course it can change depending on temperature).

1100 l of jet A1 is 869kg or 1917 lbs.

800 l / 632kg / 1394lbs

 

Internal fuel (Wiki): 2330kg/ 5140 lbs (nearly 3000 l)

With 1 tank: 2962kg/ 6534lbs

With 2 tanks: 4068kg/ 8974 lbs

With 3 tanks: 4700kg/ 10368lbs

 

The engine is in the same thrust class as RM12 on Gripen A/C.

And the fuel is really close too.

Gripen empty weight 6800kg/ 15000lbd

Internal fuel: 2270kg/ 5000lbs

Up to 3 tanks of 913kg/ 2010lbs each (total 5011kg/ 11030lbs).

Edited September 28, 2019 by jojo

[Beamscanner]

Typical Jet A1 density is 0.79 kg/l (of course it can change depending on temperature).

1100 l of jet A1 is 869kg or 1917 lbs.

800 l / 632kg / 1394lbs

 

Internal fuel (Wiki): 2330kg/ 5140 lbs (nearly 3000 l)

With 1 tank: 2962kg/ 6534lbs

With 2 tanks: 4068kg/ 8974 lbs

With 3 tanks: 4700kg/ 10368lbs

 

The engine is in the same thrust class as RM12 on Gripen A/C.

And the fuel is really close too.

Gripen empty weight 6800kg/ 15000lbd

Internal fuel: 2270kg/ 5000lbs

Up to 3 tanks of 913kg/ 2010lbs each (total 5011kg/ 11030lbs).

 

thanks!

[Kerbo 416]

On 9/24/2019 at 5:22 PM, LJQCN101 said:

The JF-17 doesn't have any fuel flow indication unfortunately. It does have a FPAS-alike page though, but will be included later in the early access process.

 

With 3 external tanks + 2 PL5E when doing a 0.8 mach cruise at 36000ft, FF can be as low as 1830lbs/h. But if you consider a whole climb, cruise and descend process, the total ferry range can reach 3500km.

 

At sea level @ 1.0 mach with full AB in combat mode (engine work mode), FF is around 57000lbs/h.

 

hello! is there any update on this? I'd love to know the range I can expect from my current fuel load

 

[BigBorner]

On 4/20/2021 at 9:55 PM, Kerbo 416 said:

hello! is there any update on this? I'd love to know the range I can expect from my current fuel load

 

I dont think this will happen. Jeff is out of Early Access and no FPAS / Cruise Page. 

[Mike_Romeo]

1 hour ago, BigBorner said:

Jeff is out of Early Access

It isnt