SA2 missile performance

[nighthawk2174]

Now I know that the previous thread on the SA2 guidance has been marked as [no bug] but i'm still worried about the SA2's performance. I don't expect anything to be done immediately, hec, I don't expect anything will be done for years but I do hope that ED will at least consider adding the proxy fuze code to the S75launcher.lua (a simple task) and move improving the SA2 up the priority list.

 

For reference this was inspired by this thread:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=250138

and my response to this was:

 

 

 

 

The Sa2 has several different guidance modes, all of which are fundamentally under the umbrella of command guidance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In short command guidance is where a tracking radar locks onto and tracks a target. It then calculates an intercept point. Once the missile is launched it is connected to the central computer via a missile uplink. In the SA2 this uplink is in the but of the main body. Additionally this antenna is blinded for the duration of the boost stage and as such it should not do any maneuvering at all during this time. Once the boost motor falls away and the uplink is established the computer will track where the missile is and where the target is and compute sterring corrections which will then be sent up to the missile. The missile itself has no ability to detect the target. This is why missile uplink jammers were so effective in vietnam, once the uplink is servered the missile goes balistic. Additionally there was the unintended sidefect of this often caused the missile to explode!

 

 

Half Lead:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Three Point:

 

 

This is basically what we have now, it a pure pursuit fly out and is really only used against jamming targets or if ranging data is unreliable.

 

 

 

 

Other Special Modes:

 

 

yes... this is a ground attack mode :P

 

 

 

 

The Necessity of Proximity Fuzes:

 

A BIG problem here is the lack of the proxy fuze code. Missiles like the SA2 often lacked the precision and hence ability to get direct hits unless it was a very large bomber like target. This is why missiles like the sa2 and sa3 had very large warheads and proxy fuze ranges. 20-35m on the sa2. So even with the above guidance fixes we would relly need to add the proxy fuze code:

 

Code:

 

fuze_proximity = {
ignore_inp_armed	= 1,
arm_delay			= 3,
radius			= 35,
			},

do note though below 100m ground clutter effectively rendered the proxy fuze unusable for the in game missile type.

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gqnwc2qhbsxujtx/SA2-headon.trk?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p4kyccpuvsawjia/Tacview-20190930-230831-DCS-SA2Test%20.zip.acmi?dl=0

 

 

It is no secret the SA2 has just about no ability to hit anything. As a test I had two F14's fly at 35k ft M1.0, no ecm, no countermeasures, no maneuvering, and where flying right at the SA2's. Against 21 SA2 sites which fired a total of 124 missiles for 0 hits. Running this test several times the 14 would occasionally get destroyed but not due to a direct hit or proxy fuze. Rather what happened most often was two Sa2's would run into each other exploding and killing the F14. Less common a missile would pass near the F14 then warp into the jet exploding.

 

This however only occurred when I placed more than 6-8 SA2 sites if below this number this is what generally happened:

 

Now with the above in mind. The Sa2 near impact can be seen pulling as much as 16g's, which is far above the maximum value of 6g's. Documentation indicates that at 35k feet the SA2 should have no more than 4-5g's. Meaning those few times it did happen to kill the F14 would most certainly not happen should this fix ever be added. My hope is that ED will take a look at adding the proxy fuze code and latter down the line improving the kinematic accuracy and guidance of the missile.

 

 

fuze_proximity = {
ignore_inp_armed	= 1,
arm_delay		= 3,
radius			= 35,
			},

Edited October 1, 2019 by nighthawk2174

[Holbeach]

These were my findings in another thread.

 

 

SA-2 combo.

40000' Launch, 34 nm. (ECM 21.0 nm).

30000' Launch, 25 nm. (ECM 16.0 nm).

10000' Launch, 19 nm. (ECM no launch / 6.5 nm).

500'. No launch.

 

You don't need any countermeasures with this one, it will never hit you. Missile will always pass behind. Devs say, it's working as intended.

Found a plane it can kill. A-10 is slow enough for it to get near enough, but not in a crossing situation. Load the Harrier with a decent weight to slow it down and it might have a chance. Pity such a good looking rocket, has such poor performance in DCS.

 

 

..

Edited October 1, 2019 by Holbeach

[Nealius]

Considering how many Skyhawks, Thuds, and Phantoms this infamous missile bought down in Vietnam, plus Gary Powers, something has to be wrong with the DCS performance here.

[QuiGon]

Hasn't Yo-Yo been a real life SA-2 operator? He should know its performance.

[Tippis]

It's not as if the SA-2 proved to be such a threat — not just to its main target of high-altitude bombers, but even to low(ish) and medium altitude agile fighters — that an entire new air warfare doctrine, complete with a new category of weaponry, aircraft, tactics, specialists schools, etc. were developed to counter it or anything…