Waypoint Elevation in NAV Systems?

[WytchCrypt]

Hi all,

 

 

I've searched the forum & watched youtube vids on NAV mode but haven't found an answer to this.

 

 

I've been flying the Su33/27 since the early DOS days and am used to a waypoint navigation mode which takes into account not just the waypoint direction but also the waypoint elevation as part of the HUD display. Also, the crosshairs on the HSI ILS bars direct me to not just the waypoint direction but also the elevation.

 

 

I've only been flying the Hornet a few weeks so still have a lot to learn but from what I've seen, waypoint elevation is not displayed on the HUD or any other informational NAV system. I know there's a way to display the info on the waypoints including speed, elevation and coordinates, but elevation doesn't seem to be integrated to any NAV system that shows me whether I'm too high, too low or just right.

 

 

Could some experienced F18 pilots out there let me know if I'm missing something obvious here?

 

 

 

Thanks!

Dennis

[QuiGon]

You can find the waypoint elevation on the DATA subpage of the HSI.

[WytchCrypt]

You can find the waypoint elevation on the DATA subpage of the HSI.

 

 

Yes, I have seen it there. My question is more toward the way NAV mode doesn't seem to include the elevation in active guidance systems.

 

 

 

For example, looking at the HSI screen on a DDI. It tells me the bearing, distance and time to the next waypoint but doesn't tell me whether my altitude needs correction. Similarly, the HUD tells me distance to the next waypoint and the compass tape tells me how to turn to correct my bearing, but there's no information on what my expected altitude should be.

 

 

Is this just a difference in approach between Russian & American NAV systems? I just find it odd that there's no info on the HUD that guides me to the correct waypoint altitude :smilewink:

[maxTRX]

Yes, I have seen it there. My question is more toward the way NAV mode doesn't seem to include the elevation in active guidance systems.

 

 

 

For example, looking at the HSI screen on a DDI. It tells me the bearing, distance and time to the next waypoint but doesn't tell me whether my altitude needs correction. Similarly, the HUD tells me distance to the next waypoint and the compass tape tells me how to turn to correct my bearing, but there's no information on what my expected altitude should be.

 

 

Is this just a difference in approach between Russian & American NAV systems? I just find it odd that there's no info on the HUD that guides me to the correct waypoint altitude :smilewink:

 

As it is now in DCS, if you really want to see your next wpt on hud just designate it as target. Make sure the elevations are programmed correctly for wpt. You'll see a tgt diamond on hud pointing to selected wpt at programmed altitude.

[WytchCrypt]

As it is now in DCS, if you really want to see your next wpt on hud just designate it as target. Make sure the elevations are programmed correctly for wpt. You'll see a tgt diamond on hud pointing to selected wpt at programmed altitude.

 

 

When you say, "as it is now in DCS" do you mean that the actual Hornet does display waypoint altitude on the HUD and it's something that hasn't been implemented yet?

[maxTRX]

Not that I'm aware of.

[WytchCrypt]

Interesting. So it sounds like the Hornet pilot is expected to manage altitude without any automated assistance from onboard NAV systems...like they don't have enough to remember already :smilewink:

[Weasel]

Interesting. So it sounds like the Hornet pilot is expected to manage altitude without any automated assistance from onboard NAV systems...like they don't have enough to remember already :smilewink:

Hi WytchCrypt

 

Please check the Natops Manual of the F/A-18C Hornet. Due to the forum rules it is not allowed to post a link (google is your friend).

 

There you can see how it is managed in the real hornet. Perhaps it is still not implemented in our DCS Hornet.

[WytchCrypt]

Hi WytchCrypt

 

Please check the Natops Manual of the F/A-18C Hornet. Due to the forum rules it is not allowed to post a link (google is your friend).

 

There you can see how it is managed in the real hornet. Perhaps it is still not implemented in our DCS Hornet.

 

 

Thanks for the tip. I read through the nav section and couldn't find anywhere that showed the WYPT elevation being integrated into any nav systems displaying real time info on where the plane is compared to the next WYPT elevation.

 

 

 

I guess it must be a difference in design approach and pilot situational awareness expectations between the Su27/33 and the Hornet pilots? I'd love to hear from a real Hornet pilot if my assessment is correct :smilewink:

[AvroLanc]

Thanks for the tip. I read through the nav section and couldn't find anywhere that showed the WYPT elevation being integrated into any nav systems displaying real time info on where the plane is compared to the next WYPT elevation.

 

 

 

I guess it must be a difference in design approach and pilot situational awareness expectations between the Su27/33 and the Hornet pilots? I'd love to hear from a real Hornet pilot if my assessment is correct :smilewink:

 

The waypoint elevations should be ground elevation at that point anyway. It’s essential for weapon delivery so at the very least the IP and TGT waypoints will be the ground elevation. In reality ALL waypoints should be like this. Having the elevation set to flight plan altitude is very gamey and inaccurate. Crews carry hard copy flight plans for a reason. They know what altitude they should be flying.

 

A Hornet is not a airliner with VNAV etc.

Edited November 11, 2019 by AvroLanc

[QuiGon]

The waypoint elevations should be ground elevation at that point anyway. It’s essential for weapon delivery so at the very least the IP and TGT waypoints will be the ground elevation. In reality ALL waypoints should be like this. Having the elevation set to flight plan altitude is very gamey and inaccurate. Crews carry hard copy flight plans for a reason. They know what altitude they should be flying.

 

A Hornet is not a airliner with VNAV etc.

This!

[glen.a.williamson]

Determining Desired Altitude

 

You may be interested in this thread as well...

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=253401

[WytchCrypt]

The waypoint elevations should be ground elevation at that point anyway. It’s essential for weapon delivery so at the very least the IP and TGT waypoints will be the ground elevation. In reality ALL waypoints should be like this. Having the elevation set to flight plan altitude is very gamey and inaccurate. Crews carry hard copy flight plans for a reason. They know what altitude they should be flying.

 

A Hornet is not a airliner with VNAV etc.

 

 

Food for thought. I do find it interesting though that waypoint elevation is considered critical enough info on the Su25/27/33 that it is both displayed on the HUD and integrated into the ADI (description from the DCS Su33 manual):

 

 

Attitude Direction Indicator

The Attitude Direction Indicator (ADI) shows the current angles of pitch and aircraft roll. In the lower part of the indicator is a yaw slip indicator. Changing the rudder position eliminates slipping, so try to have the indicator in the central position. On the front portion of the indicator are the required bank and pitch indicators to reach the next waypoint. When both yellow bars are in the central position,the aircraft is following the correct route.