Kuznetsov sails to the Med

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Looks to me that those are R-27ER. By the way, those two Su-33s are most likely QRA shift, at least that's what the loadout suggests (2x Radar, 2x IR, Gun). It's a common practice for this type of mission.

They could be ER, EA, EM or even P. We just don't know, we can only guess.

[Bimbac]

I am pretty sure that those are R-27ER. I can be wrong, of course. But:

 

1) R-27ER is the most common version used by Su-33. It is radar guided, which makes it a good choice for QRA mission for low-visibility or long-range intercept.

 

2) R-27EM is more expensive, therefore barely used. Also it's better suited for targets flying very low(not likely for QRA).

 

3) R-27P is limited for use against radar emitting targets, so definitely not a good choice for QRA (the potential target could be a hijacked airliner or a small private aircraft, which would make this type of missile useless against them).

 

4) R-27EA - can't be. This missile is not in the current VMF inventory.

 

It's still a guess, but the educated one :smilewink:

[Alfa]

Explanation for #2 should be = explanation for #4 ;) .

 

Operational versions of the R-27 range of missiles:

 

* R-27R and R-27ER with semi-active radar homing

* R-27T and R-27ET with IR homing

* R-27P and R-27EP with passive radar homing

[Alfa]

They could be ER, EA, EM or even P. We just don't know, we can only guess.

 

Tsk :D

[Colt40Five]

Some pics....

 

http://maquetas.mforos.com/353336/6654206-sorpresita-en-el-estrecho/

[RvETito]

Cool stuff. But there's one big missing in this picture- MiG-29K!

[Bimbac]

Explanation for #2 should be = explanation for #4 ;) .

 

Operational versions of the R-27 range of missiles:

 

* R-27R and R-27ER with semi-active radar homing

* R-27T and R-27ET with IR homing

* R-27P and R-27EP with passive radar homing

 

Sorry, but I have to disagree. Your list of variants is completely correct, but R-27EM has been specially designed and optimized for the Su-33 and its fire control system. As you undoubtedly know, this version is optimized to intercept high-speed, low-altitude targets, such as anti-ship cruise missiles. Since the missile still uses SARH homing, the seeker had to be modified to be able to home on even low RCS targets that reflect only a fraction of the radar energy, reflected by normal sized targets.

 

These missiles have been reported to be carried on regular basis on the Su-33, but not used for ordinary QRA or live fires, because of the increased price.

 

Since it's a common practice that warships sail with full armament, even in peacetime, it's my guess that these missiles are currently onboard the Kuznetsov, even in limited numbers.

 

I cannot prove it. Like I already said, it's an educated guess.

[Alfa]

Cool stuff. But there's one big missing in this picture- MiG-29K!

 

Hehe yeah indeed :)

[Alfa]

Sorry, but I have to disagree. Your list of variants is completely correct, but R-27EM has been specially designed and optimized for the Su-33 and its fire control system. As you undoubtedly know, this version is optimized to intercept high-speed, low-altitude targets, such as anti-ship cruise missiles. Since the missile still uses SARH homing, the seeker had to be modified to be able to home on even low RCS targets that reflect only a fraction of the radar energy, reflected by normal sized targets.

 

These missiles have been reported to be carried on regular basis on the Su-33, but not used for ordinary QRA or live fires, because of the increased price.

 

Since it's a common practice that warships sail with full armament, even in peacetime, it's my guess that these missiles are currently onboard the Kuznetsov, even in limited numbers.

 

I cannot prove it. Like I already said, it's an educated guess.

 

Bimbac,

 

I am fully aware what the R-27EM is about, but there is no evidence to be found that this version of the misssile ever made it into production. On the contrary the only mention of the R-27EM I have seen(from what I would consider a well informed source) exactly said that this variant was under development in the late eighties, but like with many other missile projects(such as the R-27AE or much touted airlaunched version of the Moskit), was abandonned with the break-up of the Soviet Union when R&D funds became scarse and series production of new weapon systems(even if fully developed) became an unrealistic prospect.

 

In the case of the R-27AE the consideration was simply that it was a better to concentrate scarse R&D resources on an ARH design of the future(R-77) than to split them between this and further developments of R-27 range. The funny thing is that the R-27P/EP, which for a long time was considered to be the variant least likely to have been pursued(due to its narrow application), actually turned out to be the only one that was :) .

 

Also according to NIIP, who designed the SUV-27 and SUV-33, there is very little difference between the two - apart from some general improvements to electronics, the only specific mention of differences they make concerns modification to the NAV system(for operating at sea) and integration of new improved "thermal cuer"(i.e. EOS) which the SUV-33 shared with the SUV-30(of the Su-30 aka Su-27PU interceptor variant) developed around the same time.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

I’ve looked for R-27EM missile pictures for about a year. I invested money buying books about Soviet/Russian airplane missiles and airplanes with many, many pictures ofairplanes and missiles in them.

 

There is only one reference drawing I found of the R-27EM missile. And I have never found a picture of a mockup, inert or live R-27EM missile. There is no evidence the R-27EM exists. In my opinion, the R-27EM does not exist.

 

On the contrary, R-27EA pictures are everywhere. Most of them are inert or mockups. Even Sukhoi own web site has a picture of it. And that is under Su-27SK page. Su-27SK is dumb down, export version of the Su-27S.

 

I don’t want to turn this thread in EM, EA missile discussion. Therefore this is going to be my last post about these missiles on this thread. There is another thread with a wealth of information on EA missiles.

[Kusch]

[VMFA117_Poko]

Orion so close Kuznetzov, wow. Don't tease the bear!

[Fjordmonkey]

Hehe. I doubt the Kuz had any issues with neither the Orion or the Frigate alongside it, since both were in radio communications with the Kuz. The Orion is from RNoAF 333sqd (The Saints, ref the Tailfin on it) out of Andøya AFB. The F311 is actually the new RNoN frigate KNM Roald Amundsen, which followed alongside the Kuz as it traveled past the coast of Finnmark. The date on those pics are from Jan. 31, so they're rather fresh. The Amundsen is on shakedown-tests

 

As far as CAOC3 at Reitan here in Norway has reported, the Kuz and other surface ships in conjunction with underwater and airborne assets have been carrying out an exercise in international waters just off the coast of Norway, which has led to scrambling of the Vipers on RS15 not just a few times. This is all part of the two-month sailing of the Kuz and it's support-ships. The Russians has even requested the use of Norwegian airports as divertion-airfields in case of problems with their aircraft.

[Bimbac]

To Alpha:

 

You are right. I have tried to find out the current status of R-27EM missile and most of my sources, as well as those on the internet contradict each other. In my opinion the missile was either never been manufactured, or is so highly classified, that no reliable public-domain sources can be found. Personally, I would vote for the first possibility. However, since Su-33 and its avionics looks to be classified as well (at least worth of a lot of money, put in destruction of the crashed one laying deep in the ocean), maybe the missile could be part of it. But this is just my personal speculation.

 

To Hajduk:

 

I concur. Let's keep this thread on topic. Sorry for any inconvenience. I have just tried to answer your question the best way I could. Appearently, I couldn't do it any better.

 

Best regards to all.

[Alfa]

To Alpha:

 

You are right. I have tried to find out the current status of R-27EM missile and most of my sources, as well as those on the internet contradict each other. In my opinion the missile was either never been manufactured, or is so highly classified, that no reliable public-domain sources can be found. Personally, I would vote for the first possibility.

 

Yes I agree Bimbac.

 

The lack of information for this variant would either have to be down to an extreme level of secrecy or alternatively that there just isn't anything to tell because the development was abandonned. The former explanation would IMO seem a little strange considering that the tidbits of info that can be found about the R-27EM developement, describes it as involving little more than an upgraded SARH seeker.

 

However, since Su-33 and its avionics looks to be classified as well (at least worth of a lot of money, put in destruction of the crashed one laying deep in the ocean), maybe the missile could be part of it. But this is just my personal speculation.

 

Well a few years ago some Su-33 airframes recieved an RWR upgrade, which replaced the original SPO-15 with the new advanced(and highly classified) SPO-32(L150) "Pastel" system....and word is that the aircraft(bort # 82 IIRC) that went overboard was among the ones fitted with this :) .

[RvETito]

Pastel on the 33? Interesting, I didn't know that. Does that mean that Kh-31P is already in the 33's arsenal?

[Alfa]

Pastel on the 33? Interesting, I didn't know that. Does that mean that Kh-31P is already in the 33's arsenal?

 

I doubt it Tito - although I agree that it would now seem a possibility.

 

The info concerning this RWS upgrade is a little hazy(and I don't know if it has been implemented on all Su-33 airframes yet), but apparently it came about because some Su-33 pilots on patrol failed to detect a couple of F-16s sent out to "escort" them - i.e. they never got any RWR indication about their presence although the Vipers apparently had their radars on the whole time........not good :) .

[Kusch]

More pics:

 

http://vrn.best-city.ru/forum/thread52825/#reply539817475

[IvanK]

Lots of images of the boat but yet to see anything of deck operations, All the jets seem permanently tied down :)