DCS: Black Shark - Q&A **READ FIRST!**

[theGozr]

I'm sorry Evil to bother you , but do you mean that BS will be released as single player first?

No SLI and No duo.....

[GGTharos]

Er ... BS, like LOMAC, does not take advantage of multi-core, or SLI. This may happen some time in the future.

 

It is NOT a single-player game. It has great multi-player built-in.

 

I'm sorry Evil to bother you , but do you mean that BS will be released as single player first?

No SLI and No duo.....

[mvsgas]

Cockpit questions

 

If this has been ask before, my apologies, I look but could not find anything about the subject.

--Ok the APU gauge, on the left side of the cockpit, that is the EGT temp for the APU right?

--Will the manual tells us what temperature would be consider over temp and will it matter?

--Looking at producer's not one, Wags refer to the RPM gauge in thousands (e.i. "...Wait for left engine to get to 1800 RPM...") Is the gauge in thousands or percentage, is it 1800 RPM or 18%?

--Does the rotor have ati-ice heating and will it mater if the heating fail, will it affect the rotor performance if ice develops?

--Does the APU provide emergency ECS air, hydraulic or electrical power in flight?

--Does the APU stay running during flight or you have to shut it down?

 

Again, if this has been ask before, my apologies.

[VS461]

AI-9V APU

 

Hey there,

On Mi-24s, the AI-9V APU's maximum constant running time is 30 minutes (not in case of an emer). If Ka-50 has the same type (TV3-117s need air pressure for start-up), this time can be the same.

Also on Hinds, AI-9V provides air pressure and 28.5 V DC with its starter-generator. In an airborne emergency, you can use this air pressure to restart your engine(s), BUT only in a case that you exactly KNOW why did they stop: e. g. you were @sshole with the fuel system:) or you stopped one of them at your single engine flight. If you don't know why did they stop, failed engine(s) restart is prohibited. I think every engine stops are cause of a failure, TV3's are very dependable stuff, so you shouldn't restart them.

In a case when both 208 V AC generators are failed, you must start AI-9V, and you must use the DC generator mode. If not, your batteries have only 8-9 minutes, after that you will fly, but without anything ( fire fighting system, gauges, instruments etc...) Sh*t happens...

You have hydraulic pressure if your rotor system is operating, hydraulic pumps are on the main gearbox. I think most of helos have the same method: the rotor will run w/o engine(s) at autorotation.

AI-9V's maximum EGT is 880 °C at start-up, 750 °C during TV3's crank-up. It has four checking lights: "Auto start-up running" green, "Oil pressure normal" green, "RPM normal" green, "RPM high" red (Hind). If these are useful for someone...

THX!

[Vekkinho]

Er ... BS, like LOMAC, does not take advantage of multi-core, or SLI. This may happen some time in the future.

 

It is NOT a single-player game. It has great multi-player built-in.

 

On the other hand, playing a DCS:BS on multi cores has some advantages over Single core processors!

 

Think of all applications U run in the background (TIR, Vista etc.) U can have one core running these and another running BS only!

 

:thumbup:

[AlphaOneSix]

--Ok the APU gauge, on the left side of the cockpit, that is the EGT temp for the APU right?

--Will the manual tells us what temperature would be consider over temp and will it matter?

--Looking at producer's not one, Wags refer to the RPM gauge in thousands (e.i. "...Wait for left engine to get to 1800 RPM...") Is the gauge in thousands or percentage, is it 1800 RPM or 18%?

--Does the rotor have ati-ice heating and will it mater if the heating fail, will it affect the rotor performance if ice develops?

--Does the APU provide emergency ECS air, hydraulic or electrical power in flight?

--Does the APU stay running during flight or you have to shut it down?

 

1) I had thought that was the air pressure gauge, to tell how much air pressure the APU is putting out. The engines need a certain amount of air pressure (based on altitude and temperature) to start. I could be wrong, though, as I don't have any reference in front of me so I'm not sure exactly which gauge you mean.

 

2) No clue, but hopefully. ;)

 

3) Yeah, the gauge is in percentage, so it would have been 18%.

 

4) The real aircraft has rotor de-ice, but I'm not sure if it is modeled in the game, and I'm not sure if ice build-up is modeled in the game, either.

 

5) The APU provides air for engine start, and DC electrical power. It is normally only used during startup, but can be used in-flight as an emergency source of electrical power if both main generators fail.

 

6) The APU is shut off before take-off and is not turned back on unless in an emergency.

[VS461]

AI-9V APU

 

Hi, A16

I just seen LLTM video. That left gauge must be the EGT instrument, I think the approx. real AI-9V EGT can be seen (750 °C ain't too often, ~600 normally). On Hinds, there is a smaller gauge for the air pressure, which must be about 1.8-2.2 bar, depends on outer temp and altitude. On the vid, cannot see it.

 

BTW, I just recognized the cold EGT test on the dual instrument, upper right... Mmmmm... :worthy:

[mvsgas]

1) I had thought that was the air pressure gauge, to tell how much air pressure the APU is putting out. The engines need a certain amount of air pressure (based on altitude and temperature) to start. I could be wrong, though, as I don't have any reference in front of me so I'm not sure exactly which gauge you mean.

 

2) No clue, but hopefully. ;)

 

3) Yeah, the gauge is in percentage, so it would have been 18%.

 

4) The real aircraft has rotor de-ice, but I'm not sure if it is modeled in the game, and I'm not sure if ice build-up is modeled in the game, either.

 

5) The APU provides air for engine start, and DC electrical power. It is normally only used during startup, but can be used in-flight as an emergency source of electrical power if both main generators fail.

 

6) The APU is shut off before take-off and is not turned back on unless in an emergency.

Cool thanks. The reason I ask is because in aircraft I have work on the APU is on the entire flight and other aircraft don't have an APU, only a JFS witch is only use for start. All the gauges I have ever used for jet engine RPM use percentage because the RPM number is to high to count in thousands (IIRC)

I was asking about EGT temp since it is a common occurrences in jet engine, at least the ones I have work on. For example, I was running a jet the other day after replacing a igniter and EGT rosed very quickly, I had to put the throttle back to cut off and continue motoring engine before I attempted another start. ( not sure if this happens on helicopters) I think it would be very cool to experience this in BS

[CAT_101st]

Does BS suport SLI video cards? Or will running 2 8800 GS XXX(or any 8800 card) in SLI have any necative effacts? shoping for new computer parts.

[Rhino4]

No, BS doesn't take advantage of sli or multicore processors. Maybe when they do the new engine, but until then...

[Canada]

Does anybody of authority know if there will be a producers note about the damage model ? I'm kinda dying a little bit every day until i can see the damage model in action. Please be kind and end my suffering.

[RvETito]

A16 and VS461 are right, I'll only add some elements specific for the Ka-50. The APU is the same AI-9V but the STG-3 DC starter-generator works only in starter mode- you can't use it to supply the DC busses. What it has though is the turbogear (modeled in BS) which after maintenance operation on ground allows you to bleed ait from the APU to drive a turbine which drives the AGB of the main gearbox (the AGB is disconnected beforehand manualy by maintenance personnel) thus giving you generators and hudraulic pumps output on ground with engines off (non-moving rotor). That is a very nice feature, it makes the Ka-50 a flying maintenance base- no matter where you go you can make full test of all systems, well assuming that the APU is OJ :)

 

About the APU panel in KA-50- like it was pointed out this is the EGT gauge, the four lights are as follows (looking forward): left top (green)- APU shut-off valve open, right top (green)- APU oil press norm, bottom left (green)- APU off RPM max, bottom right (green)- APU on.

 

Apart from the turbogear the APU serves only to provide pneumatic power for main engines start. It can operate either on ground or in flight, you just have to make sure the engine RPM is less than 7% to initiate an air-start, otherwise you'll brake the start-valve driveshaft.

 

The engine RPM gauge is scaled in % from 0 to 110, 100% corresponds to about 19000 compressor RPM.

 

The rotor anti-ice uses 208/115V 3-phase AC which is the generators output. No generators- no ice protection for the rotor. To be honest I haven't done any rotor anti-ice tests, I tested only the engines ice protection which works- if you don't turn it on in icing conditions ice develops on the engine intake and IGV leading to EGT increase, engine decrease and at the end- engine flame out. I'll try the rotor for you.

[RvETito]

For example, I was running a jet the other day after replacing a igniter and EGT rosed very quickly, I had to put the throttle back to cut off and continue motoring engine before I attempted another start. ( not sure if this happens on helicopters) I think it would be very cool to experience this in BS

 

It's exactly the same for helicopters and in BS too- that's why engine and APU crank is modeled to vent the engine from excessive fuel in the combustion chamber.

[mvsgas]

Cool AirTito, thank you very much for the info. Any other info would be very appreciated.

Hmmm, I know this is dumb but, what about F.O.D. (Foreign Object Damage) or D.O.D. (Domestic Object Damage). You say ice can cause a flame out, can it cause F.O.D. If I land in a F.A.R.P. or if I get battle damage, do I have to worry about this things? (F.O.D. or D.O.D.) I don't know how vulnerable are helicopter to this. Sorry for the dumb question, I was just wandering. Thanks to all you guys for the information.

[AlphaOneSix]

AirTito,

 

Thganks for the additional info on the Ka-50 APU. If I researched correctly, the Ka-50 (and most all Kamov machines) use the AI-9 APU, while almost all Mil machines use the AI-9V. I am not sure the precise differences between them, perhaps it is only the difference in the STG-3 starter/generator?

 

Also, it is good to hear that the Ka-50 has an accessory gearbox that allows the APU to power the generators and hydraulic pumps, although it must be connected and disconnected by ground personnel.

 

The Apache, for example, has an accessory gearbox attached the the main gearbox. The APU has a driveshaft that connects to the accessory gearbox, and all of the normal main gearbox accessories are attached to the accessory gearbox (generators, hydraulic pumps, and air compressor). This allows the APU to provide power to all accessories on the ground, and it also allows the main gearbox to drive them in-flight. All without any extra work to make it happen. It is very helpful to have this setup and I was surprised not to see it implemented on Mil aircraft when I started to work on them. Admittedly, it is an old design, so perhaps that is part of it, but other than that, I am continually amazed at the simplicity of maintenance required for Russian aircraft, they were clearly designed to work in the mud for long periods of time. Just keep them greased and they are happy (for the most part)!

[RvETito]

Cool AirTito, thank you very much for the info. Any other info would be very appreciated.

Hmmm, I know this is dumb but, what about F.O.D. (Foreign Object Damage) or D.O.D. (Domestic Object Damage). You say ice can cause a flame out, can it cause F.O.D. If I land in a F.A.R.P. or if I get battle damage, do I have to worry about this things? (F.O.D. or D.O.D.) I don't know how vulnerable are helicopter to this. Sorry for the dumb question, I was just wandering. Thanks to all you guys for the information.

 

Yes, you have to worry. Combat damages of compressor are modeled, I'm not sure how much of that I'm allowed to share so we'd better wait for an answer from devs or another authorized person. FOD though are not very likely in non combat situations assuming the position of the engines and the dust protectors on the intakes.

[RvETito]

AirTito,

 

Thganks for the additional info on the Ka-50 APU. If I researched correctly, the Ka-50 (and most all Kamov machines) use the AI-9 APU, while almost all Mil machines use the AI-9V. I am not sure the precise differences between them, perhaps it is only the difference in the STG-3 starter/generator?

 

Also, it is good to hear that the Ka-50 has an accessory gearbox that allows the APU to power the generators and hydraulic pumps, although it must be connected and disconnected by ground personnel.

 

The Apache, for example, has an accessory gearbox attached the the main gearbox. The APU has a driveshaft that connects to the accessory gearbox, and all of the normal main gearbox accessories are attached to the accessory gearbox (generators, hydraulic pumps, and air compressor). This allows the APU to provide power to all accessories on the ground, and it also allows the main gearbox to drive them in-flight. All without any extra work to make it happen. It is very helpful to have this setup and I was surprised not to see it implemented on Mil aircraft when I started to work on them. Admittedly, it is an old design, so perhaps that is part of it, but other than that, I am continually amazed at the simplicity of maintenance required for Russian aircraft, they were clearly designed to work in the mud for long periods of time. Just keep them greased and they are happy (for the most part)!

 

The AI-9 and AI-9V have some other differences apart from the starter(generator), the startup-fuel pump is electricaly driven in the 9V while in the 9 it is driven by gear from the engine rotor. The fuel governor has also some slight differences. But the things is that on Ka-50 is installed acually the 9V, just the STG-3 is not used as generator which is a bit strange to me. TBH, I find the AI-9(V) APU a bit obsolete- yes, it's very simple and easy to maintain but it's weak, has severe limitations and sometimes can be a pain in the a.. when decides that won't start. I know for instance that the Mi-8MTV-5 exported to the Checz Republic have it replaced by an APU local design (Sapfire)- much more powerful and capable.

 

As for the realiability and endurance of the russian helicopters- there are no two opinions about that. No other design can match that, fact proven countless times. Once you have touched to a Mil ot Kamov helicopter I can't imagine you'd want to do something else.

[VS461]

APU

 

Hi AirTito,

I'm also surprised to hear AI-9V does not provide 28.5 V DC. It seems that at Kamov they made a bit more dependable electric system: Mi-24s have some weak points, one of them is the 208 V 3 phase AC generators. Sometimes they don't work parallel and it can be "pain in the a..":D situation at icy weather.

That AGB feature is great, I've never heard about it:punk: this could be good for our maintenance guys (no APA or hydraulics truck needed).

I am really amazed about the modelled FOD. If I don't switch dust separators (PZUs) on, sh*t happens... And the icing on the engines... does it have affect on the gearbox cooling (on Hinds there ain't no de-icing on the gearbox cooling intake - increased gearbox oil temp can refer to icing)?

Thanks

[RvETito]

Kamov have gotten rid of the parallel working generators long time ago. I think they (Mi-24, Ka-32/50) use the same GT40PCh8B brushless generators which from my experience are bulletproof. We've had only once problem with the BZU (control and protection unit).

[VS461]

Generators

 

Hi AirTito,

I don't know about the generators being bulletproof, THX for gods :D . But sometimes they drop parallel mode: BZU failure, of course... Maybe our Shark got later model than Mi-24Vs' and Ps'.

THX!

[Yo-Yo]

I know for instance that the Mi-8MTV-5 exported to the Checz Republic have it replaced by an APU local design (Sapfire)- much more powerful and capable.

 

 

I have seen the Saphire 5 docs and it's not much more powerful than AI-9V because it must fit turbostarter specification of TV3-117 and it has almost the same parameters of bleed air as AI-9V.

 

http://www.pbsvb.cz/pdf/dlt_safiry/cs_safir-5c.pdf

[Yo-Yo]

Yes, you have to worry. Combat damages of compressor are modeled, I'm not sure how much of that I'm allowed to share so we'd better wait for an answer from devs or another authorized person. FOD though are not very likely in non combat situations assuming the position of the engines and the dust protectors on the intakes.

 

We are thinking about FOD modelling but we are not sure what kind of damages is better to simulate. Now the GG turbine will suffer if rpm and temperature are out of limits.

FOD could bite compressor and turbine as well.

If it's looks real we will implement this effect.

 

By the way, the damages and deterioration are not scripts - they are parametrical, we bend engine stages parameters so the engine reaction is naturally.

[RvETito]

I have seen the Saphire 5 docs and it's not much more powerful than AI-9V because it must fit turbostarter specification of TV3-117 and it has almost the same parameters of bleed air as AI-9V.

 

http://www.pbsvb.cz/pdf/dlt_safiry/cs_safir-5c.pdf

 

This was brought to my attention by Klimov design bureau representative with whom I worked together 2 years ago. Perhaps he was just throwing stones at the Motor Sich factory which develops the AI-9(V) :) Myself, I don't have any idea what the Sapphire APU is like, but the AI-9 needs a replacement or at least modification IMO- especially of the ignition.

[AlphaOneSix]

especially of the ignition.

 

What?! You don't like APU's that look like they are exploding every time they start? ;)

[RvETito]

On the opposite- I love it when it throws away that looking like afterburner flame. The troubles start when it doesn't do it.