DCS: Black Shark - Q&A **READ FIRST!**

[amalahama]

Ok, come on with more strange and scary questions :D

 

1.- Looking at the SimHQ video, I could see you can lock on the Shkval sensor to a stationary target. This bothers me because I always suppose that Shkval lock onto a target because the movement. Is this behaviour realistic?

 

2.- Does the aiming computer take into account the target's movement? If I use the cannon in an auto mode (slaved to shkval), and the target is moving, Does the computer aim correctly the cannon ahead the target? The same with the rockets.

 

3.- Can we use cannon running in an auto mode (slaved to shkval) for aerial targets? Does the computer take into account the aerial target movement too?

 

Thanks you! :)

 

Regards!!

[GGTharos]

Ok, come on with more strange and scary questions :D

 

1.- Looking at the SimHQ video, I could see you can lock on the Shkval sensor to a stationary target. This bothers me because I always suppose that Shkval lock onto a target because the movement. Is this behaviour realistic?

 

Incorrect. It's based on contrast, not on motion. No constrast = ground stab.

 

2.- Does the aiming computer take into account the target's movement? If I use the cannon in an auto mode (slaved to shkval), and the target is moving, Does the computer aim correctly the cannon ahead the target? The same with the rockets.

 

Why yes :D ... there might be exceptions which I am not familiar with however.

 

3.- Can we use cannon running in an auto mode (slaved to shkval) for aerial targets? Does the computer take into account the aerial target movement too?

 

Thanks you! :)

 

Regards!!

 

 

You can try. I wouldn't reccomend trying to fight against anything faster than another chopper though.

[amalahama]

Incorrect. It's based on contrast, not on motion. No constrast = ground stab.

 

So I can slave the shkval into a tree, for example?

 

Regards!!

[GGTharos]

I guess, if you really wanted to ... no different from how it works with the Su-25 in that respect.

[Yellonet]

So I can slave the shkval into a tree, for example?

 

Regards!!

If the tree contrasts enough against the background I guess you could.

[GGTharos]

You don't need contrast to attack a target though, you can just ground-stabilize and attack that spot. The only caveat here is a moving target.

[VMFA117_Poko]

So many things have changed since first presentation of JimMack's LockOn BlackShark videos (in 2006?)... Amazing.

 

So Z axis for TrackIR will not zooming view but will simply change head position in ckpt, am I right? Is it final decision? Couldn't it be to give us a possibilty to tight it with zooming? Just a little value needed to edit via .lua or .cfg files for example - some ppl on smaller monitors with lower resolution could find it helpfull.

[Boberro]

Eer on the last movie from SimHQ I didn't noticed time-to-impact for Vikhrs (time to hit)? It doesn't exist? So there won't be Vikhrs spamming :D ?

[amalahama]

Does that mean that in adverse visibility I can still attack preset coordinates blindly (as long as the laser reaches the target of course), for example if I´ve got precise coordinates of a building or a fixed SAM site, put a target waypoint on top of them and slew the Shval to that coordinates, without actually seeing the target or at least without a valid lock?

 

It's a good question, but I think laser effectiveness is conditioned to the weather in the zone, so if it's bad weather, laser is useless. It could work for night mission in good weather, though.

 

Regards!!

[nemises]

If you watch the Navigation and Shkval producers notes, you can see that target co-ordinates can be either manually entered (or datalinked presumably) , or pre-loaded into the INS and Abris.

 

 

In this sense, they are just another waypoint (but of type target instead of type navigation), so the Shkval could be set to slave to the target waypoint (as per Producers note).

 

Am I right in saying the Shkval can only be slaved to INS (PVI800) and not to the ABRIS?...reasons why INS updates are so important if you are using target points for aiming info!

 

The question then is ,whether you can do a manual release of a Vicker on a non "locked" point....you could for sure use the Cannon or Rockets in a low / no visability scenario I think

 

(which brings up another question!..does the datalink info update the ABRIS system only, or the PVI800 only , or both?... different KA50's using datalink to swap target co-ord's could have different aimpoints because of INS devience!)

Edited July 1, 2008 by nemises

[GGTharos]

If it's just night, it will work. I shouldn't work in weather for Vikhrs, though I don't think that has been implemented in BS.

 

Does that mean that in adverse visibility I can still attack preset coordinates blindly (as long as the laser reaches the target of course), for example if I´ve got precise coordinates of a building or a fixed SAM site, put a target waypoint on top of them and slew the Shval to that coordinates, without actually seeing the target or at least without a valid lock?

[GGTharos]

I don't think zooming is a good choice; though I haven't actually tried it with TIR myself in BS, I'll tell you right now that the ability to move your head forward gives you a huge increase in lateral visibility.

Also, I have fairly lately started to get unhappy with zooming; it should be capped at some reasonable level (to allow you to zoom in on your instruments) and thegame should provide fixed-zoom binocs for those who want'em ;) This whole 'zoom until you find a bandit' thing in LO has become seriously annoying ... in the Black Shark, your Shkval will zoom in very nicely, so you can and should use that to search.

 

So many things have changed since first presentation of JimMack's LockOn BlackShark videos (in 2006?)... Amazing.

 

So Z axis for TrackIR will not zooming view but will simply change head position in ckpt, am I right? Is it final decision? Couldn't it be to give us a possibilty to tight it with zooming? Just a little value needed to edit via .lua or .cfg files for example - some ppl on smaller monitors with lower resolution could find it helpfull.

[GGTharos]

I see some of you are asking questions that might have been answered in previous dev notes, but I'm not sure. Before I go too far with explaining stuff, I think I'll just say you need to wait for the weapons notes :)

 

Yes, target coordinates are neat, but probably not precice enough to attack something as small as a tank - IMHO.

 

And yes, you can ground-stabilize the Shkval, aim, and launch the vikhr.

 

Boberros: The count-down is on the HUD. You can't spam vikhrs no matter how much you'd like to ;)

Edited July 1, 2008 by GGTharos

[159th_Viper]

........You can't spam vikhrs no matter how much you'd like to ;)

 

Woa - you are'nt able to Ripple-Fire Vikhrs?

[GGTharos]

You can fire them in pairs against harder targets ... but if you think you can do the fire-fire-fire-fire-walk-lock-walk-lock-walk-lock thing, you're in for a shock :D

 

Woa - you are'nt able to Ripple-Fire Vikhrs?

[Yellonet]

If you're skilled though you can score hits on quite a few different targets fairly quickly, especially if they're in a line towards you, launch the vikhrs with a few seconds apart and then as soon as the first one hits, move the box to the next target and so on.

 

Another thing, did we get a final answer on if the laser warning systems of tanks and vehicles would detect the range finder beam? Personally I'd hate to be in a tank that couldn't detect when someone is figuring out how to fire at me.

[GGTharos]

No, you most definitely cannot.

 

If you're skilled though you can score hits on quite a few different targets fairly quickly, especially if they're in a line towards you, launch the vikhrs with a few seconds apart and then as soon as the first one hits, move the box to the next target and so on.

[Yellonet]

No, you most definitely cannot.

You can in the Su-25T, I thought it was the same for the Ka-50.

[GGTharos]

I will repeat my statement: You most definitely cannot.

 

The Su-25T's avionics aren't modeled to anything near the same fidelity as the Ka-50's, nor are in fact the vikhrs. You can basically say good-bye to multiple kills per lasing and the ultimate air to air missile ;)

There's no comparison between LOFC and DCS other than looks.

[nscode]

I think that the cone varies during the missiles flight, so missiles must be close together if more than one is to be guided.

[GGTharos]

The weapon control system will shut the laser down when the first missile reaches its pre-computed TOF, plus a few seconds - whether you want it to or not ;) This is also why a bogus (too short) range received from the LRF is a problem.

 

The laser fires when the missile is launched; and while I haven't checked, this will probably inhibit the launch of a second weapon.

 

Lastly, the average launch range is under 6km. With a missile travel time of 15 sec, you don't get much time to do anything.

Edited July 1, 2008 by GGTharos

[Yellonet]

Can you fire single rounds with the cannon in the Ka-50? The gun itself is stated to have that feature. Would be good for those long range sniper shots I guess :D

[GGTharos]

No, you cannot. Nor can you do 'long range sniping' from a heli ;)

[EvilBivol-1]

To clarify some of the questions:

 

The Vikhr - no, you will not be able to spam Vikhrs from your Ka-50, other than in emergency release mode, in which case there will be no guidance provided.

 

When firing the Vikhr, the laser guidance channel forms a grid ("the control zone"), which is used by the missile to determine its position as it tries to find the center of the control zone, which is in fact the direct line of sight to the target. The dimensions of the grid need to be maintained constant around the missile (7 m. radius IIRC), so the control zone narrows as the missile flies away from the helicopter. For this reason, only one engagement is possible at a time. If another missile enters the grid after any significant delay, it will not be able to coordinate its position accurately anyway. When two missiles are fired in salvo, the interval is minimal and the grid begins to narrow after the second missile is fired off.

 

This is also why it's so important to keep the helicopter relatively steady before and after firing. Sometimes, if you are maneuvering while firing the missile, it fails to enter the control zone in the first place, because it is only formed about 100 m. in front of the helicopter. In essence, the missile is designed to fire off and 'catch' the control zone in front. Once in it, it tries to find the centerline by using the laser grid to determine its position inside the control zone.

 

It does all this with a single-axis control surface while spinning around itself.

 

IMHO - Perhaps now you can see why the Russians so like the Vikhr and other similar systems. It isn't because they are more effective, especially when compared with systems like the Apache's Point Target Weapon System - it's because it's simple and... cheap (relative to the 16 Hellfires with individual seeker heads anyway).

 

Currently, Black Shark does not simulate weather effects on the laser. So, you could, theoretically, guide Vikhrs onto targets you cannot see due to bad weather by simply ground stabilizing the Shkval at a coordinate. Will you actually hit anything? Probably not.

 

In regards to INS/ABRIS/datalink - insofar as tactical purpose, the ABRIS is only used to display information it receives from the navigation system. The only difference is that the ABRIS might have a more accurate own position. However, if the INS has accumulated error, it will feed inaccurate point coordinates information to the ABRIS (e.g. the point of interest is actually 3 km. away, but the INS "thinks" it's 2 and sends that to the ABRIS).

Edited July 2, 2008 by EvilBivol-1

[RedTiger]

Thats interesting EvilBivol! Is there any truth to the Russians firing two at a time to make up for any guidance problems?