Coop mission-building scearios?

[Flyby]

I wouldn't mind having a copse of trees between me and a sabot. Beats being out in the wide open...;) As far as being detected amidst trees, I'll take that chance too. The whole idea is to try to not be seen while seeing the enemy (ground forces). If I'm otherwise detected, but the enemy can't get a firing solution on me I'm haaving a good day. If I know I've been detected, I doubt I'd risk a pop-up in the Black Shark. Rather I'd redeploy to another position. Of course if I'm at optimal weapons range for my systems, and outside the enemy's best ranges I'd risk a pop-up, even if detected. Obviously I'd rather feel safe when taking a shot since I have to hold lock, so range to target will be extremely important.

Slightly OT: Can a loal be used by the Black Shark?

Flyby

[GGTharos]

You cannot use LOAL in Black Shark, the guidance system isn't capable of such a thing unfortunately (beam riders...bah!).

And, actually, hiding behind trees does nothing for the SABOT. Those things will find you from 4km away, and firing solution isn't that much of a problem ... point is ... trees aren't reliable in any way, shape or form, unless they /completely/ obscure you, but then you don't see the target either. They do have their use, but -mostly- when there's basically a forrest between you and the target, so that visual is completely obscured.

And sadly I don't think that's modeled in this iteration of the game engine. :(

[Highwayman-Ed]

No, as Vikhrs are Laser guided... so they should be LOBL only in those terms, the same as Laser guided Hellfires

 

It's possible though the re-guide a Vikhr in flight on the Frog (fire a pair 5-10 seconds apart toward 2 targets, after the first is hit, designate the second), so I don't see any reason that the KA-50 couldn't...

[MBot]

What is even more important on that subject, is the ground AI in Black Shark still omni-knowing or does it actualy has a limited field of view and reaction times. Or in other words, can the ground AI in BS be surprised? Otherwise the talk about trees providing cover and pop-up attacks is pretty much nullified.

 

But since the element of surprise is one of the most fundamental considerations in mudmoving and helicopter combat in particular, I am optimistic.

[Boberro]

Hmmm I hope these trees will be colisionable with objects, and even if we stick heli's chassis on tree it stoops.

[Avimimus]

No, as Vikhrs are Laser guided... so they should be LOBL only in those terms, the same as Laser guided Hellfires

 

It's possible though the re-guide a Vikhr in flight on the Frog (fire a pair 5-10 seconds apart toward 2 targets, after the first is hit, designate the second), so I don't see any reason that the KA-50 couldn't...

 

The Vikhrs are laser beam riders (rearward looking, non-imaging, seeker). This is a totally different means of guidance.

[GGTharos]

No, as Vikhrs are Laser guided... so they should be LOBL only in those terms, the same as Laser guided Hellfires

 

Incorrect. Just because they are laser guided does not mean they are LOBL. In fact, GBUs are normally LOBL. Laser hellfires can be launched in LOBL mode, because they are not beam-riders...so they also have a choice of path to fly.

 

It's possible though the re-guide a Vikhr in flight on the Frog (fire a pair 5-10 seconds apart toward 2 targets, after the first is hit, designate the second), so I don't see any reason that the KA-50 couldn't...

 

 

Yes, it can. Under the right circumstances this is not impossible, but because of the way the fire control and laser control system works, it is not quite as easy as it was in FC.

[Flyby]

No tree-masking? MADNESS!!

 

when there's basically a forrest between you and the target, so that visual is completely obscured.

And sadly I don't think that's modeled in this iteration of the game engine. :(

Can that be true? We are about to enter a high-realism gunship sim, and there is no opportunity to hide amongst trees? :( Surely that's a mistake. It's one thing to not have human opfor, if the AI is up to the trick, but the ground environment cannot be overlooked. Say it ain't so.

Flyby

[GGTharos]

It isn't quite so bad ... like I said ... trees are pretty 'meh' realistically.

Besides, I think the AI itself would need to be made aware of trees to begin with, and, AFAIK, there's no point in doing this until the core engine is replaced. You won't be missing much, you'll see.

[Flyby]

i still want usable trees...

 

and forests too, but I'll see how it goes. With a good standoff range of up to 8km for the Vihkr, and a jam-resistant laser designator I guess trees are not really essential. But the additional immersion factor would have been nice. I think it's going to be a high pucker factor anyway to sit there lasing a target, even though the Vihkr is a supersonic missile.

So mission builders put your minds to work! Don't let me get caught within range of the bad guys without brass armor plating for the gonads. :) I wonder how stand-off works in hill country?

Flyby

[Squid_DK]

I'm really looking forward to exploring all the possibilities in the ME, and a treat making scenarios in mountainous terrain is an old favourite of mine :)

 

Cheers

Staffan

[GGTharos]

The standoff capability of the Vikhr from hover is about 6km, actually ... or 6.5. Something like that.

 

And yes, you're correct about the problems this system poses. :D

[Flyby]

Danish_Squid I hope to enjoy some of your mountain missions one day. Good luck! :D

GGT I read online in researching the Ka-50, that the range was 8km for the Vihkr. I guess different sources will qoute different figures, but even if it's 6-6.5km that's still a far shot, and out of range of at least small arms fire, and even a sabot round (I hope).

i wonder how accurately the missile will be represented in Black Shark?

Flyby

[joey45]

to the best of their degree... with WAFM..

[Avimimus]

Each munition is much cheaper though.

[Highwayman-Ed]

Incorrect. Just because they are laser guided does not mean they are LOBL. In fact, GBUs are normally LOBL. Laser hellfires can be launched in LOBL mode, because they are not beam-riders...so they also have a choice of path to fly.

 

Ok, please don't take me out of context here... The key word here was 'Should' meaning that in normal operational use, you should have already locked / designated / pointed at a target before letting a missile that is laser guided / seeking loose.

 

I can't speak with any authority on Vikhrs as they are beam riders as mentioned, but given my experience in FC of how Vikhrs behave when you shut off the laser, I would have thought that firing them without a beam to ride would be a waste of a missile, especially at low level...?

 

The principle of ripple firing essentially remains the same though with beam riders or seekers. The missiles in flight will guide to the point at which the laser is aiming. Move that point and the missile will shift it's flight path accordingly if it is able to, enabling you to hit more than one target in a volley if you are skilled enough.

 

Just incase anybody is confused by the acronyms...

 

LOAL - Lock On After Launch

LOBL - Lock On Before Launch

[joey45]

typo dude.. LOBL - Lock On Before Launch