F-15 too easy??

[Doc3908]

With so many DCS modules, I hadn't tried the F-15 until now. I just set up a quick guns-only mission against an excellent-AI Su-27 and killed him in 30 seconds flat. Then I changed the mission to two excellent-AI Su-27s. Same result - one Su-27 went down almost immediately, the other one a minute later and only because I was playing with him, trying to get firmly on his tail. Tried one more time - same thing. It's almost relaxing flying against AI Su-27s. And, until now, I've had zero time in the F-15, so I'm not quite used to the way it flies yet...

 

Now, I've been flying the Su-27 against an excellent-AI F-15 in guns-only scenarios for a while now, and every time it's a challenge. I have no idea how the real aircraft stack up against each other in ACM, but in DCS at least it seems to me that the F-15 is programmed to be superior to the Su-27.

 

Any thoughts?

 

(I did record a video and can post it if anyone is interested...)

[draconus]

DCS AI performance has not much to do with real aircraft. They use simplistic flight model and differ in difficulty. Try Mig-29 for a challenge. Su-27 is too easy.

Edited March 14, 2020 by draconus

[Weta43]

(...)it seems to me that the F-15 is programmed to be superior to the Su-27. Any thoughts ?

 

You're probably right.

The more interesting question is whether it's deliberate.

 

I suspect not originally, but in the end, if it's left that way - that's a decision in itself.

[Oceandar]

May I recommend you to fly in Just Dogfight server. Its full of sniper aces. I guarantee you'll get rekt within seconds lol.

[Doc3908]

DCS AI performance have not much to do with real aircraft. They use simplistic flight model and differ in difficulty. Try Mig-29 for a challenge. Su-27 is too easy.

 

You're right, of course: Yes, the DCS aircraft do not necessarily represent the behavior of the real aircraft. And the AI is definitely different. Just tried flying the F-15 against the MiG-29S: Slightly more challenging to bring down, though still easier than flying an Su-27 (or a Mig-29) against the AI-controlled F-15.

[Doc3908]

May I recommend you to fly in Just Dogfight server. Its full of sniper aces. I guarantee you'll get rekt within seconds lol.

 

Oh, of that I have no doubt. :) I was just commenting on my initial impressions of flying the F-15 against an AI controlled Russian jet. Flying against an experienced human pilot is a whole different game...

[Doc3908]

Here's a video of my first MiG-29S engagement from last night. The actual dogfight is only about 1.5min - my mistakes notwithstanding. :)

 

Edited March 12, 2020 by Doc3908

[GGTharos]

You're probably just not flying your BFM right in the flanker. Maybe your fuel load is too high, AI shenanigans non-withstanding - AI are easy to defeat at all skills levels and with just about any aircraft.

 

You can jam up an F-15 with the flanker, but it all depends on which pilot manages to get the other one into a desirable position. Assuming no mistakes after that, whichever one pulled it off will win. There's nothing particularly super easy about the eagle, though it was definitely designed to be flown easily.

 

Edit: I watched your video and. Some superficial points:

 

You lost that fight, regardless of the final result - the flanker had its nose on you twice before magic AI overshoot took over.

 

At over 450kts Your BFM entry is probably too fast for that altitude. The flanker has a g limiter that will reduce your turn rate above M0.85. You have to know when to enter the fight with more/less speed and when to abuse the limiter restriction. The eagle has no such limiter so you won't perceive any restriction and you might believe the eagle just plain turns better.

 

I don't know your fuel load, but a heavy flanker can do a turn and after that it can't go anywhere. Not the end of the world, but makes life hard. An eagle with a full fuel load has more TWR than a flanker with a full fuel load.

 

Lack of preparation, planning, and finesse in controlling your aircraft is what's giving the impression that the eagle is so easy. Yes, it doesn't restrict you as much and it does a bunch of things better than the flanker does ... corollary, the flanker has its own superiority areas and requires more knowledge to set up and fly since you can't just haul on the stick and expect a win. It doesn't make it a worse plane and it doesn't make the eagle a noob plane (people like to assume that, but if you're planning preparing you're already a significant step above any newb and the same skills translate to both airframes).

 

Bottom line, work on your BFM.

Edited March 12, 2020 by GGTharos

[captain_dalan]

As the good folks above have mentioned, neither the flight models nor the behavior of the AI controlled planes is an indicator of the planes capabilities in DCS.

 

The AI (especially on excellent) has one and one game plane alone. A 2-circle carousel. This in turn translates well to a low alpha, high energy regime that favors planes that are good at doing it. No sane human pilot will fly this way against you though.

 

But, if you primarily stay off line and fight the AI, then you still need some valid parameters to estimate individual plane's merits, if nothing else, then to know what to expect. So in the above case, create 4 missions (or one mission with 4 pairs of dueling planes).

1. F-15 VS F-15 (clean, 50% fuel each)

2. Su-27 VS Su-27 (clean, 34% fuel each)

3. Su-27 VS F-15 (fuel as above)

4. F-15 VS Su-27 (fuel as above)

 

This should give you some idea about how each of these planes perform relative to you, when handled by an AI. Be warned though, unless you have piloted it before, the Su-27 can be somewhat tricky to handle, especially when compared to the F-15, and especially if you want to fly it well.

 

If however you want to try them in a more competitive environment, well.....it's the weekend! Go online and find a dogfighting server! And remember to have lots of fun!