What interest you most, A-A or A-G missions?

[Legolasindar]

What interest you most of the combat aircraft, air-to-air missions and air-to-ground missions?

 

Do not put option "both", because it is choice between these two, but what we like.

 

Sorry for my english.

[VMFA117_Poko]

A2A. But (!) it can be borring after some time. A2G missions are real fun if flown with multirole aircraft with A2A capability and I won't have to stay too long in target proximity. Simple task like strike on bridge, factory, buildings, etc. are my favorites. SEAD is also interesting. CAS, BAI or Interdiction missions are too hard for me. I don't see myself in pure attack aircraft.

[Boberro]

Long time ago I prefered A2A but the level of realism of avionics weren't good as everybody know. Now I love A2G missions on Su25T. IMO it is more fun and exciting than AA, and it is pretty nice when squadron of Su25T is flying on SEAD :D

[GreyStork]

Definitely A/G, and especially with a good team in multiplayer, performing coordinated attacks. Even the best AI can't replace a seasoned human player, and even the best wing communications menu can come close to the immersion of talking to other human players. When the mission is well planned and everyone knows what to do and when to do it, it's a beautiful thing to behold.

[GGTharos]

Not a pound for air to ground!

 

There's nothing like taking on other opponents in A2A - real, thinking, sometimes unpredictable and clever opponents - team on team. A2G can never compare with this. Escorting A2G craft, protecting HVAA's, maintaining air superiority, fighter sweeps.

 

It's all good, but there's almost zero cooperation and understanding between A2A And A2G crews to make those things work well typically ;)

[Boberro]

Not a pound for air to ground!

 

There's nothing like taking on other opponents in A2A - real, thinking, sometimes unpredictable and clever opponents - team on team. A2G can never compare with this.

 

I can polemize - it is more likely that unpredictable things you will find in AG mission, cause even one man with bazooka can shoot down your machine which isn't super speed machine. Su25T with its speed can somehow be still alive, but A10 which is slow like turtle it is tragic I think. In AA you can go to 8000 meters, and from ground only sams can you shoot down. Also you have radar which shows you opponents. In AG you have nothing, must be very careful. :E

[GGTharos]

Ground targets are relatively static, can barely use two dimensions for maneuver, not that they do in LO anyway - they are practically defenseless. There's no particular difficulty involved in dealing with detected ground threats, unlike air threats. You can break conctact, come back, and still find your ground threat there. If you turn tail and run, it won't chase you. Air threats are -far- more versatile and capable in taking your aircraft down.

 

As for that 'man with a bazooka', it isn't as if opponent's plane's can't sneak around when stick one up your tailpipes when you don't see them. ;) And it's not like you need to fly at an altitude that makes the bazooka man's attack work ...

 

If you require further proof that A2A is far more difficult and unpredictable than A2G, I suggest looking up a USAF study regarding skill degradation in A2A due to lack of practice ... they briefly state the same thing there IIRC. If I find the link to it I'll post it.

[mvsgas]

A2G for me

[RedTiger]

Maybe its the fact that DCS is starting out with a Helicopter, but I'm always amazed that people like A/G more.

 

If you prefer to fly the Hog and Frog, well then, I understand. Make no mistake, I don't have romantic notions about the over-importance of fighters.

 

HOWEVER, the only planes I fly are fighters. Period. THE defining element that has been, is, and will ALWAYS be the driver of fighter technology and capabilities will be Air to air. End of story. Other wise, why design and improve AMRAAMS, F-35s, and F-22s when something like an F-117 can do the same (air to ground) job without all the extra A/A baggage?

 

Don't make me break out all my quotes from Richthofen and Galland about the fighters and fighter combat...:furious:

[RedTiger]

 

If you require further proof that A2A is far more difficult and unpredictable than A2G, I suggest looking up a USAF study regarding skill degradation in A2A due to lack of practice ... they briefly state the same thing there IIRC. If I find the link to it I'll post it.

 

 

Quoted x3 for truth. I once heard a pilot, either Eagle or Viper I forget, refer to A/A skills as "perishable". Don't use them, and after a short while they go bad!

 

From my own expirience in something like F4AF, I can go months without playing the campaign and still hop in my plane and do a decent job with my CBUs and Mavericks. If I load up a dog fight TE or even a BVR TE, my months away really, really, really show. I have to play for several hours just to feel confident again.

 

EDIT: And this is vs. the AI! Imagine vs. a real person. Imagine a real pilot who has been away for months trying to win some ACM vs. someone like an instructor at a FWS who may do nothing but ACM. Air to air is a dying art as is, lets not let it die in our sims too! :(

[GGTharos]

There are two types of aircraft: Fighters and Targets :D

[Boberro]

And this is vs. the AI!(

 

Very often AI cheats like in Lock on :P

[mvsgas]

At least in A2G an SA-15,10,11,etc. will not fire all their missile ant me and run home like some people do in LOMAC FC. I'm very easy to shoot down and yet one guys fell the need to fire 8 AMRAAM at me (he/she was in an F-15 I was in a SU-27) Just saying, on line I prefer A2G or A2A guns only. I always loose but not because the other guys using shady tactics, just my lack of skill.

[cool_t]

Well

 

Above all Air to Air, as mentioned ground targets are boring and they cant figure out your tactics. Fighter incursions on the other hand in On-line combat, there is a live person trying to figure out how to get in and out of the battle weaving in and out of SAM WEZ, watching fuel consumption "Potential energy", senaking in the back with a suprise attack, figuring out how to kill 2 A-50s in one flight, IFF, systems managment overload, when to engage a bandit or just let him go past you, kenetic energy management, push, pull, drag the bandit(s), go guns on a SAM implacement, plan an egress plan, and oh I forgot Shoot all 8 120s at one bandit then bring that F-15c back home!

 

:pilotfly:

[GGTharos]

At least in A2G an SA-15,10,11,etc. will not fire all their missile ant me and run home like some people do in LOMAC FC.

 

Which is why it doesn't require a whole lot of skill to deal with.

 

I'm very easy to shoot down and yet one guys fell the need to fire 8 AMRAAM at me (he/she was in an F-15 I was in a SU-27) Just saying, on line I prefer A2G or A2A guns only. I always loose but not because the other guys using shady tactics, just my lack of skill.

 

 

No one said there aren't some poor examples of A2A out there. This is endemic to most server supporting an airquake type environment, and you could see it happen even in the most realistic sim. Should the case be that you are supporting A2G craft and someone pulls a stunt like this, you can turn tail when he does, avoid his spam, then turn around and resume your patrol - he's out of the picture and not threatening your buddies any longer.

 

But does anyone do such things on HL? Nah. :D

[mvsgas]

SU-25A against an Avenger or Vulcan (or large convoy of vehicle)may not require skill but it is fun, you should try it.

[GGTharos]

Tried it, got bored of it quickly ;) Pretty safe to do if you do it from the right altitude as well.

[joey45]

I'm no Fighter pilot.... im a mud mover... i shovel mud fifty feet in the air and over a large area....:noexpression:

 

"Fighter pilots make movies, Bomber pilots make history"

[GGTharos]

Bomber pilots make history when the fighter pilots clear the way for them. Otherwise, they make statistics ;)

[joey45]

Bomber pilots make history when the fighter pilots clear the way for them. Otherwise, they make statistics ;)

 

and i [we] thank you for it...

 

never seen Flight of the intruder..

[RedTiger]

Very often AI cheats like in Lock on :P

 

Very often the AI sucks monkey balls. I'm not an online flyer, but I'll still admit that. The F4AF "dogfight" AI, in my most honest opinion, is better than Lockon. Cheating? I'm not seeing it, not in a fully patched version. However, what I do see is the AI pulling MASSIVE lead all the friggin time. The easiest way to kill it is to turn at corner and keep your FP marker or gun cross above the horizon so that you climb as you turn. The AI will try to out turn you, pulling huge lead, and lose all its smash because its trying to pull lead AND climb. Then you can basically have your way with them while they wallow around at 150 kts. For extra fun, I go completely verticle and watch as they try to climb after me. I've watched my fair share of AI Hornets and Tomcats stall and crash while trying to chase me.

 

BVR...well, its not so much "will I kill them?" more like "Will I kill them and get my wing man home alive?". The BVR AI isn't great, but ARH missiles are deadly. A Lockon-ish situation where you have F-16s armed with Aim-120Bs vs. R-27RE armed Su-27s is like beating up preschoolers for the Vipers.

 

Believe it or not, the R-27TEs are unrealistic and deadly JUST LIKE LOCKON! The sim seems to think that they make great BVR missiles. :lol:

[GGTharos]

I am obviously just too full of myself. I did recognize the quote :D

 

'... No one would be crazy enough to go through that again!'

 

and i [we] thank you for it...

 

never seen Flight of the intruder..

[joey45]

hahahahahahahahahahaha..

 

you win i cant think of a quote to beat that...

[RedTiger]

I wanted to add that I'd rather have A/A in an environment that also has realistic A/G going on too. This is the reason why I fly offline. I like having things like campaigns and missions that have surface to air threats even if I'm flying A/A missions. Hitting the deck to avoid an A/A missile on hyperlobby is one thing, doing it in a world full of SAMs, AAA, and every guy with an AK-47 shooting at you is another. :joystick:

[Kuky]

I like both... best combining them into same mission...