Red Flag and other trainings

[shomke]

I was wondering how are AA training engagements resolved.

I mean, pilots do not shoot real missiles, so is there somewhere a computer who simulates the movement/position of virtual missiles and check if there is a kill or not?

How does that work?

[Phantom88]

Hello,I don't know for sure,but I'm just guessing that if you have a offensive position on your opponent for a set amount of time along with a missile lock tone that could credit the pilot with a kill?

 

A great place to ask this question would be here

https://www.fighterpilotpodcast.com/

[shomke]

Thanks Phantom :)

[falcon_120]

I was wondering how are AA training engagements resolved.

I mean, pilots do not shoot real missiles, so is there somewhere a computer who simulates the movement/position of virtual missiles and check if there is a kill or not?

How does that work?

Actually they do. The use a system that simulates virtual shots and based on aircraft parameters determine a kill. In order to register each aircraft position, speed,etc... they use a telemtry pod called acmi. Also thanks to link16 and other protocols NATO aircraft can transmit who they are locking or what they systems are seeing. Altogether this will create a virtual war in exercises like red flag.

 

Enviado desde mi SM-G950F mediante Tapatalk

[Emmy]

And basically, what we see using TacView is pretty much what Range Control is watching and it’s what they play back in debriefs.

[KlarSnow]

The ACMI system is capable of doing that but at least in everyday Air Force training, and most red flags its not used like that. I believe the navy does use it more in that manner.

 

How it works is all that comm that everybody is saying (Fox 3 medium, Short, Close etc...) is telling either the bandit directly or a go between coordinator called the Range training officer the kinematics of the missile. IE Fox 3 close south group, tells the Range training officer to pair and assess a missile against the South group with whatever kinematics close means.

 

Real world or in the sim when you are actually shooting a missile there is no need for all that comm, cause the actual missile hits the target or doesnt. IE fox 3 medium means nothing when you are shooting an actual missile, but in training when nothing is leaving the jet you have to communicate somehow what its kinematic state is.

 

Then after the flight and the real time assessments from either the red air or the Range Training Officer, everybody sits down and reviews their tape and does a 100% validation of all of their shots, then everybody sits in a big auditorium with a giant screen showing all the jets positions, and they play it through, with everybody calling all their shots and pairing them to individual targets, and then closing them out with the 100% validation they did after they landed. They then compare that to what was called airborne. This allows for example things that might have been edge cases airborne to get resolved, IE somebody doesnt hear that they are dead due to comms or whatever, but in the shot validation it comes out that they got killed 30 seconds before they killed somebody else etc...

 

Basically the correct comm over the radio in a training environment kills what you were shooting at. It’s pretty strictly enforced in USAF/Navy fighter communities. If you screw up the comm even in just reciting the missile shot in the debrief they will probly just say your missile missed to drive the point home. Pretty normal for a young guy to just butcher the comm and have most of his missiles declared non factors for comm buffoonery.

 

Long story short the capability and technology is there to have a fully automated system, but its rare to get actually used, in the 2 red flags, and several other LFE’s with NATO nations that I have participated in, what I just described is standard and the expectation going in.

[KlarSnow]

Listen to this, note how the migs are only copying they are dead when the controller calls them dead, thats cause the controller is getting told by the guy copying and assessing shots on the blue air freq to kill Mig 1/Flanker 1/ whomever.

 

At one point on of the migs calls a kill, and the Controller says copy, kill passed, so the mig assessed he killed something so now the comm has to get passed to the blue air that whomever he was targetted to is now dead.

[Ghostraider]

A little different thing to our Sim, they have all the real Performance Data of there Rockets, Fighters, Radar, ECM System, what else so they can Calculate if it was a hit or not

Edited April 25, 2020 by Ghostraider