GGTharos Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 ... Not being able to fly the platform of your choice the way it's supposed to because the 'Realistic' G setting does not permit you to flyin the best part of that aircraft's performance envelope? Sounds like a disadvantage to me. :) Mountain out of a mole hill people... I can't wait to see what the next community complaint is. Whatever the setting is remember EVERYONE HAS TO PLAY AT THE SERVER SETTINGS. So whats the real disadvantage? Standing by ...... :music_whistling: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
The_GOZR Posted January 13, 2008 Author Posted January 13, 2008 It would be great if ED could tell us what those two settings do exactly, it does actually change something in the FM .. lets take a side the G effects and find what in the FM changes..
GGTharos Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 It doesn't change the FM ... but you might FEEL like it does because the grayouts and blackouts happen differently. The 'Realistic' G is a relistic G-tolerance MODEL that follows a STOHL curve for the average human. The unrealistic part of it is that it is not following a STOHL curve for a trained pilot doing AGSM straining and using a G-suit, so all the blackout and redout onsets, as well as fatigue accumulation is too fast. Reduced G is not realistic; you will neer G-LOC, ou grey and black out based on G-value, which is not realistic, but on the other hand, you don't lose control like you do with Realistic G ... where you lose control TOO EASILY. So, Realistic G as it is now is great for anyone flying an airframe that like fighting at slow speeds, but it's a nightmare for anyone flying an airframe that works best in the transsonic envelope of flight, where high-G's are necessary, because the little virtual pilot's tolerance is all wrong. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
The_GOZR Posted January 13, 2008 Author Posted January 13, 2008 Well yesterday when i did test it quickly i felt some differences.. on Reduced G setting staying in the 4/5 G's envelop ( easy to do all matter of speed as well ) I could do some acrobatics figures that on Realistic I couldn't.. No grey or black at that level. The Reduced G acted weird on neg-G's but good feeling on the plane maneuvers and the Realistic no much difference on G pilot effect but the plane gain like 3000lbs feeling.
GGTharos Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 I suggest you record tracks and do maneyvers the exact same way in both - and use TACVIEW as well. You will see there's no difference in FM. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
The_GOZR Posted January 13, 2008 Author Posted January 13, 2008 Well I never used tacview I have no idea. Lets see about recording tracks...
The_GOZR Posted January 13, 2008 Author Posted January 13, 2008 Something that is extremely annoying is each time the plane stall vertical at low speed the plane lock up ( freeze in mid-air ) maybe to have a script running .. but that is really a problem.
GGTharos Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 The HIGH-AoA regime of flight is not too well done in LOMAC, this is true. At some point, when you pass some AoA limit, a script takes over. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
IvanK Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 You can actually detect the script take over point. Try setting up some classic spin entries Slow speed max Alpha then apply and hold full rudder. The script kicks in about 5 seconds later. The subsequent spin is a classic as far as indications go but probably not to representative of a modern fighters departure and spin. In Lock on asymmetric loads all result in identical autorotation and subsequent spin. Recovery is conventional... though I dont think any current front line fighter has a "conventional recovery" method.
Grimes Posted January 14, 2008 Posted January 14, 2008 What is going on?..... West Coast US servers are on "reduced" when Europe are using more the "Realistic" setting.. Must be the hippie admins sticking it to the man. Thinking outside the box and not assuming things mean as they should. Don't Red Bull Air Race pilots pull upwards of 10 Gs, without a G suit? Shouldn't a trained fighter pilot be able to do the same thing? Besides I reckon the pilot texture doesn't change in the pit on the different settings, he is ALWAYS wearing a G suit. but its a sure thing that a little diversity doesn't hurt. The right man in the wrong place makes all the difference in the world. Current Projects: Grayflag Server, Scripting Wiki Useful Links: Mission Scripting Tools MIST-(GitHub) MIST-(Thread) SLMOD, Wiki wishlist, Mission Editing Wiki!, Mission Building Forum
SoaringEagle74 Posted January 14, 2008 Posted January 14, 2008 Something that is extremely annoying is each time the plane stall vertical at low speed the plane lock up ( freeze in mid-air ) maybe to have a script running .. but that is really a problem. Well, well...what do we have here? I always thought that my computer was at fault but as others are acknowledging some scipt takes over and stalls the game. By the way, this does happen quite often and not just when the plane is going to stall...quite annoying for sure! As far as reduced g's vs realistic g's I will agree reduced is better. Realism is nice but not to the point where the sim becomes unplayable. Now, if some servers would at least allow labels, particulary in a2g missions where you need a hud telescope to see manpads and small shorad units, then that would really make my day enjoyable!
PoleCat Posted January 14, 2008 Posted January 14, 2008 SoaringEagle I doubt anyone is going to configure a 64+ player server to turn labels on for one person. The labels on view is very unpopular and virtually no one that is serious about LockOn in the community will likely ever use them on dedicated servers. If you give it a try you will find it is not so hard as it seems without them. I would be glad to help you understand how to do better without labels on just as many others in this community would who have stated the same. It is unlikely the whole communtiy will change thier view based on your reasoning. Most see this labels on request as a sign of inexperience, which is fine. I mean we have all been where you are now. Sorry mate IMHO you are virtually alone in this. If you were not then there would already be servers in HL that run regularly with labels on. There simply aren't. In reference to reduced or realistic G we will be going by this poll. http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=23946 Majority rule. For now "reduced" (The closest to real world) will be used on the 104th Dedicated. "Hippie admin sticking it to the man". :megalol: Out http://www.104thphoenix.com/
Cosmonaut Posted January 14, 2008 Posted January 14, 2008 I don't think SoaringEagle74 was being insistent on having labels in servers but rather just mentioning his preference. For me flying with labels on is just an immersion killer and it really doesn't take very long to get used to flying with out them but I can understand that there is a very good argument that labels can be more realistic if the distances are set right. In IL2 most of the Popular "full real" servers had labels turned on at a distance where in real life you would be able to identify aircraft markings and I did prefer those servers from those that ran no labels on at all. However in lockon any type of labels for me just doesn't work but I except that realism is as important to those that fly with reduced labels as it is for those that fly with out them. Anyway this isn't about labels ;) .. I did some testing last night and I have to say I still prefer Real G's as apposed to the reduced effect and its nothing to do with ego ;) . I like the way it simulates fatigue on the pilot and you are more than able pull very high sustained G loads time after time if you're careful with the way you pile on the G's. If you yank and bank then it's black out time but if you increase the G load a little more carefully then you black out much less. Online however is another matter seeing as you face a competitive "death match" situation where missile behavior can lead to prolonged dog fights that should have ended in a few seconds and this can be frustrating if you loose becasue the lights were turned off. Now I am not saying Real G is more realistic than reduced G but for "me" the way it simulates G's on the v-pilot is more immersive. Although I don't have an issue either way as to what is the best way to fly is so what ever the server is running is fine by me . Cozmo. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Minimum effort, maximum satisfaction. CDDS Tutorial Version 3. | Main Screen Mods.
PoleCat Posted January 14, 2008 Posted January 14, 2008 I don't think SoaringEagle74 was being insistent on having labels in servers but rather just mentioning his preference. For me flying with labels on is just an immersion killer and it really doesn't take very long to get used to flying with out them but I can understand that there is a very good argument that labels can be more realistic if the distances are set right. In IL2 most of the Popular "full real" servers had labels turned on at a distance where in real life you would be able to identify aircraft markings and I did prefer those servers from those that ran no labels on at all. However in lockon any type of labels for me just doesn't work but I except that realism is as important to those that fly with reduced labels as it is for those that fly with out them. Anyway this isn't about labels ;) .. I did some testing last night and I have to say I still prefer Real G's as apposed to the reduced effect and its nothing to do with ego ;) . I like the way it simulates fatigue on the pilot and you are more than able pull very high sustained G loads time after time if you're careful with the way you pile on the G's. If you yank and bank then it's black out time but if you increase the G load a little more carefully then you black out much less. Online however is another matter seeing as you face a competitive "death match" situation where missile behavior can lead to prolonged dog fights that should have ended in a few seconds and this can be frustrating if you loose becasue the lights were turned off. Now I am not saying Real G is more realistic than reduced G but for "me" the way it simulates G's on the v-pilot is more immersive. Although I don't have an issue either way as to what is the best way to fly is so what ever the server is running is fine by me . No offense meant to soaringeagle mate. I thought he posted off topic. On the "G" thing, Vote in the poll. If the majority of people who fly on HL want this changed we will change it. So far judging by the amount of people who even bothered to vote in the poll it seems like just alot of noise over nothing. What do you like to fly for AC in the sim at realistic G? Not the F-15 I'll wager. Out http://www.104thphoenix.com/
The_GOZR Posted January 14, 2008 Author Posted January 14, 2008 OK here a small quick track of a Su27 Realistic Demo Su-27 Realistic setting. I think a lots of you are a bit off with regarding the maneuvers with the speed of the aircraft, try to go around and respect the actual real speed or the aircraft not doing crazy move at 1000+ km/h I have good result with the F15 as well. Please post your short track here and lets see..
GGTharos Posted January 14, 2008 Posted January 14, 2008 The F-15 out-turns the Su-27 at around 450+ kts . You're flying some high G's there. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
The_GOZR Posted January 14, 2008 Author Posted January 14, 2008 Tharos high G's will be at high speed it's all in relation.. Most of you guys would be going blue just by taking a 360 at 45 degree bank flat turning lets say 3 to 4 G's and holding everything he will find in the pit.. this is for Joe in the Hood now lets see in lockon... If the F15 was so good it wouldn't loose vs a Mirage dogfights demos .. ;) anyway that is not the matter 450 knt is already pretty good. Tharos about a little track to show .. The G's here are manifested with some grey blackouts but in reality you receive lots of pressures, G suit or Not.. no matter what, so i think it is in relation.. but i will test more. I'm just worry about controls damages
The_GOZR Posted January 14, 2008 Author Posted January 14, 2008 In reality like in the track when i'm fulling a round you will see that i'm pretty much ok but reality i would be already squizzed pretty hard. I just remember this link about some G force into a mirage have a look. http://www.patricksaviation.com/videos/phi729/2292/
SoaringEagle74 Posted January 15, 2008 Posted January 15, 2008 SoaringEagle I doubt anyone is going to configure a 64+ player server to turn labels on for one person. The labels on view is very unpopular and virtually no one that is serious about LockOn in the community will likely ever use them on dedicated servers. If you give it a try you will find it is not so hard as it seems without them. I would be glad to help you understand how to do better without labels on just as many others in this community would who have stated the same. It is unlikely the whole communtiy will change thier view based on your reasoning. Most see this labels on request as a sign of inexperience, which is fine. I mean we have all been where you are now. Sorry mate IMHO you are virtually alone in this. If you were not then there would already be servers in HL that run regularly with labels on. There simply aren't. Out I maybe inexperienced but at least I don't take off from taxi ways or shoot down my leading wingman as some so-called experts do! :P Don't the squads teach that stuff in flying 101?:D And don't tell me this stuff never happens on hl servers because that WOULD BE LYING!
GGTharos Posted January 15, 2008 Posted January 15, 2008 No one claimed n00bs don't fly there ;) You're already better than that lot, see? Some people can't be taught ... we had someone in the squad like that once, he'd just go and cuss and make trouble ... I told him to bite his tongue like 3-4 times, but nada. So he got fired. MOST squads will not tolerate this sort of behavior. As for taking off from taxiways ... unh. I guess for some people getting to the runway is too long ... some of us will do it in emergencies (you got bandits 15nm from base and about to be vulched .. better get out of there before you get nailed on the ground) I maybe inexperienced but at least I don't take off from taxi ways or shoot down my leading wingman as some so-called experts do! :P [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
The_GOZR Posted January 15, 2008 Author Posted January 15, 2008 Well after tests i found the Realistic setting is more interesting and keep you in a more realistic envelop than Reduced.. You must have a better control as well a better Speed awareness so i would say Realistic is less wrong than Reduced.. The MAJOR problem are the scripts which is .. well.. humm..
GGTharos Posted January 15, 2008 Posted January 15, 2008 Sorry, any G-Setting that doesn't let you maintain 7G for a good amount of time and then pull 9G is not good enough if you're going to fly a fighter whose best maneuver is in those regimes. Period. The Miglets you flew were a little too underpowered to do that - maybe it's realistic for -them-. But for an F-15 pilot? They live in high-G county. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
The_GOZR Posted January 15, 2008 Author Posted January 15, 2008 Tharos i think you are wrong man on this .. you can pull 7 g's sustain on realistic and reach 9 no problem in Reduced you can be 9+ completely sustain high speed banking for EVER.. no counting Negative G which is the worst of all G's .. You guys are just going way to heavy on the throttle.. Man i'm telling you this also by experiences and trying to superposed them into the sim. An other thing can be discussed as well is the rear view angle.
The_GOZR Posted January 15, 2008 Author Posted January 15, 2008 You see Reduced G flights is like here on the left box .. look at your reputation and mine :) real is all Warnings and Reduced it's all rep LOL... Funny stuff
S77th-GOYA Posted January 15, 2008 Posted January 15, 2008 Tharos i think you are wrong man on this .. you can pull 7 g's sustain on realistic and reach 9 no problem in Reduced you can be 9+ completely sustain high speed banking for EVER.. no counting Negative G which is the worst of all G's .. You guys are just going way to heavy on the throttle.. Man i'm telling you this also by experiences and trying to superposed them into the sim. An other thing can be discussed as well is the rear view angle. Throttle setting makes no difference if you are pulling 7 Gs. 7 Gs is 7Gs regardless of airspeed.
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