Headtracking effect - A true 3D perspective "window"

[FOD]

I was shown this vid last night and am really impressed by how well it works, wouldn't it be cool if ED could implement this technique on all future releases;

 

 

The immersion factor would be huge, but I guess so would the computation.

 

Cheers!

[Verdungo]

I don't understand all the fuss around that application. Isn't that exactly what TrackIR does?

[FOD]

Is the perspective shifted with the 6 DOF headtracking??? I didn't think so, which is why I posted the video link.

 

From the producers notes videos it appears only the view from a single point changes according to the headtracking position, rather than the perspective view from that point.

 

I hope I am wrong!

[Shaman]

Is the perspective shifted with the 6 DOF headtracking???

Yeah it does. More thinking... it even has to. It's just how you set it, depends on the sensitivity settings, you can make it to actually make the perspective parallel to perspective perceived in reality - so your monitor actually acts like a window.

[FOD]

My mistake!

[GreyStork]

Is the perspective shifted with the 6 DOF headtracking?

 

Take another look at Producer's note #1. That should give you a better idea of how it's going to work. You can shift from side to side, as demonstrated, and the perspective will change. It is truly 6DOF.

[RedTiger]

I was shown this vid last night and am really impressed by how well it works, wouldn't it be cool if ED could implement this technique on all future releases;

 

 

The immersion factor would be huge, but I guess so would the computation.

 

Cheers!

 

If this is that guy who made a head tracker type thing out of a Wii controller, then yeah, TrackIR already does that. Funny how some guy hobbles a Wii controller into something he obviously thinks is novel, yet has been available on the commercial market for years. :doh:

 

IIRC he comes up with some original applications for the technology though.

[FOD]

I have gone back and had a good look at the first producers notes, and utterly agree that the 6DOF with track IR gives you this sort of effect. I am going to go out on a flaming limb here now......

 

however I think most of you are missing the point of this post. True "world" 3D perspective is based purely on the position of your head relative to the screen. The 3D effect shown in the video will only work on a very narrow field of view (which would severly hamper situational awareness in BS). This is unlike the track IR implementation that will be in BS because that (luckily) includes rotation around the three main axes.

 

The video in my link has the vertical axis and horizontal axis rotational degrees of freedom locked, with only 1 vanishing point for the perspective projection. This gives it the ability to acurately "spoof" depth perception, relative to your heads position in front of the screen. I work with 3D technology so I do have some idea what I am talking about here.

 

Humour me and have another careful watch of the video that I included in the first post. Hopefully you will understand the concept that I am trying to explain.

 

It would be mind blowing if it was available in the forward view only for instance.

 

Actually to prove the difference, please observe how the guy moves around in front of the screen and how the 2D image on the screen wildly pivots about his co-ordinates, yet from his camera view things look truly 3D.

 

With track IR in BS, an observer standing behind the virtual pilot will see the same displacements, i.e they share the same 2D snapshot view of a (fantastic) 3d world.

[Bucic]

Humour me and have another careful watch of the video that I included in the first post. Hopefully you will understand the concept that I am trying to explain.

 

It's clear but the inventor will shoot himself when he sees how many blokes see no difference between TrackIR and his invention. :doh: :D

[Arakahn]

Definitely TrackIR gives similar results, however one thing about TIR; it's for PC only. Now, being able to use that in console applications (especially the WII), would change gaming as much as TIR as changed flight sims.

[CAT_101st]

I think it is more of a cost thing. TIR about $178, A wii mote $39 sofwair free from that guy on his web page. Coat hanger and some reflictive tape your good to go. He is merly kaking things that people can aford. I would dare to say hes fighting the MAN that gouges the rest of us for somthing that is realy cheep to produce.

[Weta43]

Funny how some guy hobbles a Wii controller into something he obviously thinks is novel, yet has been available on the commercial market for years

 

In the guys defence -I don't think he thinks he's doing anyting novel or even better than other off the counter products, he's just saying that if you own a Wii, you effectively have a head tracker, and that devs could use this in game development.

Same with his virtual whiteboard/desktop - he's not saying this is new or better, just that Wii owners can now do this with the gear they already have & the software he's written.

 

the video in my link has the vertical axis and horizontal axis rotational degrees of freedom locked,

then I suspect that you're looking at the wrong video (you want the producer's note 1).

As the maker's head moves up, the top of surfaces appear, horizontal surfaces change shape, and objects previously below the FOV move into it over the nose. As the producer moves to the side the same thing happens with vertical surfaces, commine the axis, combined effects.

[paladrian]

Actually to prove the difference, please observe how the guy moves around in front of the screen and how the 2D image on the screen wildly pivots about his co-ordinates, yet from his camera view things look truly 3D.

 

Watching the video again I realize that there is indeed a difference between what TrackIR currently does and what is done in the video:

 

With 6DoF TrackIR, horizontal movements (read, along 1 axis) of your head form left to right are transformed into horizontal moves from left to right in the game; but in the Wii video these are not tranformed into horizontal moves but horizontal rotations. Have in mind that the TrackIR hardware is perfectly capable of doing that as well, it would be just a matter of programming the capability this "mode" in the game

 

But if you ask me, I don't see the usefulness of that in a flight simulation :music_whistling:... maybe something cool but nothing more, just like a clickable cockpit. I like what my TrackIR does now just fine :thumbup:

 

:pilotfly:

[Bucic]

Definitely TrackIR gives similar results, however one thing about TIR; it's for PC only. Now, being able to use that in console applications (especially the WII), would change gaming as much as TIR as changed flight sims.

 

O really? :P

How about the illusion that a part of 3D scene is floating 1m in front of actual display? I'm not talking about axis differences - only the 3D/stereoscopic effect(?). And I find it more and more amusing that nobody sees it :)

[FOD]

then I suspect that you're looking at the wrong video (you want the producer's note 1).

As the maker's head moves up, the top of surfaces appear, horizontal surfaces change shape, and objects previously below the FOV move into it over the nose. As the producer moves to the side the same thing happens with vertical surfaces, commine the axis, combined effects.

 

Hey Weta, how is it having ears on your legs? (kiwi joke, ignore us).

 

Yes I agree that the 6DOF that Track IR gives in BS a very interactive and realistic view of the 3D world objects that form the cockpit and external environment, and the result looks very similar. Yet TrackIR is just a fancy way of moving your point of view around the cockpit. This point of view of the 3D world is then projected onto your 2D screen.

 

However the video I posted is fundamentally different from the 1st producers note. The key difference is the way the 3d world image is projected onto the 2D screen relative to the viewers head position to that screen. Thats the cool thing about this idea, it tracks your head position to determine your place in the 3D world and then projects this view onto the 2D screen. This is very different than moving a POV around a 3D world, since it gives a real perception of depth. Correct me if I am wrong but the views in BS will be contained within a bounding box, and the TIR will move your "camera" around inside this box. Thats not what this new idea shows.

 

However you lose the ability to rotate vertically and horizontally as the degrees of freedom are "traded" for monitoring you head position. No programmer wants to see 8 degrees of freedom I can assure you!! Hence this idea would be great for say the fixed forward view out of the aircraft only.

 

He is using a Wii because he is a research student and won't have a huge budget, he is being very resourceful.

 

Cheers.

[Shaman]

You are fooled that there is perception of depth because of the 2D youtube video. In reality you will never feel depth, because the images on the 2D screen is the same for both of your eyes. hm..

[FOD]

You are fooled that there is perception of depth because of the 2D youtube video. In reality you will never feel depth, because the images on the 2D screen is the same for both of your eyes. hm..

 

A good point, the creator points this out in his blog. The way they would get around it is to have polarized glasses and the software to display each eyes viewpoint relative to the 3D world. They said it would give them DARPA levels of realism. However he is on a budget so the first cut experiment had to be compromised. The distance of your head relative to the screen is critical since the parallax next to a monitor or small screen would be huge, however standing back from a large plasma TV would give a very good effect. Trouble is the FOV will be so limited.

 

Its just a cool technology, not so relevent for flight sims maybe, but you watch how popular it becomes. Probably an ideal first port will be for a game such as "wipeout".

[Weta43]

but in the Wii video these are not tranformed into horizontal moves but horizontal rotations.

 

Only during that little bit where he'd dodging & shooting

That is - the bit where the camera's not correctly attached to the tracking bar & he says

you can also see now how the perspective is not right if you're not the one wearing the glasses

It's not supposed to be rotating, it's just that the camera's not in the same place that the perspective calculations are being calculated for.

Thats the cool thing about this idea, it tracks your head position to determine your place in the 3D world and then projects this view onto the 2D screen. This is very different than moving a POV around a 3D world

Ignoring the bit where he's ducking & dodging & says it's not working correctly for the camera - look at the first 10 seconds of producers note 1, & imagine that the structure that the HUD is mounted on projected out further - you'd have exactly what you have in that video (while he has the camera correctly mounted on the Wii sensor bar) except that the TIR user is moving his head, but you can't see that, so it all seems internal to the video, but you can see the 'outside world' in the Wii vid, but look again at the two videos & look at what happens to the rectangular grid in the bits before the stadium shot, then what happens to shapes in the same plane in BS - same thing..

[DRavisher]

I don't understand why anyone would want this instead of 6DOF TIR for a flight sim. Being able to look out a side window is actually useful in the game, while this would just be sort of cool. Given the choice between 6DOF cockpit and a cool 3D effect I'd choose 6DOF any day.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong (haven't thought too much about it), but couldn't you get the best of both worlds with TIR? You could use x,y,z the way this guy does it, while using rotation around the axes to rotate the view. The Wii system can't do that because it only has 3DOF (if I'm counting correctly).

[Blacknemisis]

I have a question? If I got the TIR just the senor can I buy those IR glasses to make it work with it. I rather wear those IR glasses instead of putting a IR device on my Head set.

[Vati]

This is nothing new. However kudos for the guy doing something else with the wii.

 

Those who are saying that this is different tech should actually understand that how you treat camera movement on screen is not device dependent but application which uses the input from the devices.. be it TIR or anything like it. It's up to ED and how they want to present the head movement of the pilot.

[luckybob9]

I have a question? If I got the TIR just the senor can I buy those IR glasses to make it work with it. I rather wear those IR glasses instead of putting a IR device on my Head set.

 

If you can buy/ make the glasses, then yes. When I got my TrackIR 4, it shipped with tiny reflectors and you just put onto a hat and it works like a beauty. I always forget that I have my hat on.

[Weta43]

I don't understand why anyone would want this instead of 6DOF TIR for a flight sim.

No one would - that's not his intention & he's not suggesting it.

[iantron]

This could be sooo cool!

 

Wow, i'm bringing up an old thread here. Anyways...

 

No one would - that's not his intention & he's not suggesting it.

 

...Totally wrong! This is about the only thing you could use it for and i think it would be absolutely amazing:

 

Build a custom (physical & to scaleish) cockpit and install lcd screens for the windows. That way the left window lcd is always looking left out of the ingame cockpit and accordingly for the front, right, and other lcds. Moving your head in three degrees of freedom (up/down, left/right, forward/backward) changes the perspective looking through any of these windows.

 

If you did this (in 6dof) with BS it would cause a problem. When you turned your head to the left, the left lcd would display the rear view (in-game i.e. head rest), the front lcd would display the left view (in-game), and the right lcd would display the forward view (in-game). Thus the in-game views would no longer line up properly with your physically built cockpit.

 

Alternatively, you could just disable the unneeded dofs in trackir (pitch, yaw, roll). This would cause it to work nearly as it does in the wii-man video. The only problem that i can see with this is that i don't believe bs allows you to set up custom view location/direction/fov for each individual monitor. If it did, this method should work just like the wii-man video does, and function appropriately as a real cockpit with windows. Now tell me that wouldn't be cool...

[Boberro]

It is very nice, I would like to have this :D