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Departure Proceedure symbology


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Sorry if this has been asked before but what does the black triangle and "Stoff" in this departure procedure chart refer to exactly? https://skyvector.com/files/tpp/2006/pdf/03188STOFF.PDF I can't seem to find any kind of reference to it in game or on the IFR charts on skyvector or elsewhere for that matter. I am flying the hornet and the departure states one should be at or above 10,000ft by reaching that point, yet I don't seem to be capable of knowing what or where that point is, other than the 25 DME off the 77X TACAN listed on the chart. I take it the reason I can't find such a point labelled on the SV IFR charts is because of the Restricted and MOA status of the NTTR zone?


Edited by Darkheran

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It seems to be about 12mn SE of Mt Helen

 

476th vFG got this info:

 

STOFF

 

 

 

37°25'07"116°32'31"

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  • 2 weeks later...

Triangle means it's a Fix (Intersection). The solid color means that it's a mandatory reporting point. If you're not being tracked by ATC Radar (Or they have requested it), you're supposed to report passing that Fix. On the chart, it's defined as the 137° Radial from the Silverbow TACAN (Ch 77 TQQ) at 25nm.

In the F/A-18C, you'll know you've reached STOFF when you've tuned and enabled the TQQ TACAN, selected it as the navigation source, and set the course to 137 (or 317 ...but lets keep it easy). And, the distance indicated on the HUD is 25.0 with the CDI needle centered.

 

 

As you said, it's a fix used by the military within restricted airspace, and is not published on the enroute charts. But check this out... it's in skyvector's database.

 

 

Go to the enroute chart page, and type the intersection name in the search box.

 

 

DCS World terrains don't include IFR route structure information so you'll need to create the necessary fixes and airways during mission building, planning, or navigation system setup.

 

 

EDIT: Procedures are FAA not necessarily DOD, but should be very close.

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Triangle means it's a Fix (Intersection). The solid color means that it's a mandatory reporting point. If you're not being tracked by ATC Radar (Or they have requested it), you're supposed to report passing that Fix. On the chart, it's defined as the 137° Radial from the Silverbow TACAN (Ch 77 TQQ) at 25nm.

In the F/A-18C, you'll know you've reached STOFF when you've tuned and enabled the TQQ TACAN, selected it as the navigation source, and set the course to 137 (or 317 ...but lets keep it easy). And, the distance indicated on the HUD is 25.0 with the CDI needle centered.

 

 

As you said, it's a fix used by the military within restricted airspace, and is not published on the enroute charts. But check this out... it's in skyvector's database.

 

 

Go to the enroute chart page, and type the intersection name in the search box.

 

 

DCS World terrains don't include IFR route structure information so you'll need to create the necessary fixes and airways during mission building, planning, or navigation system setup.

 

 

EDIT: Procedures are FAA not necessarily DOD, but should be very close.

 

NIce explanation. It’s a shame with the small number of airports in each map we don’t have a nav database with procedures. The real airplanes must have full nav databases With these procedures don’t they?

6700K@4.6 48Gb - 1080Ti Hybrid - Warthog - RIFT

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It’s a shame with the small number of airports in each map we don’t have a nav database with procedures.

Navigation databases aren't relevant to this specific example. The procedure is based on TACAN, not area navigation. An F-5 can properly fly this departure.

I think DCS does it properly. Navigation data is loaded onto aircraft in the same manner as mission data is for combat aircraft, so it makes sense that this information is contained within the missions, and not the map. You can see this with properly built missions.. they include all relevant navigation fixes. In the civilian simulation world FMS data has been separated from the terrain too, and is instead loaded independently by the FMS of your chosen aircraft. Keep in mind that IFR procedures are constantly changing too.

The real airplanes must have full nav databases With these procedures don’t they?
Again, this is a TACAN procedure. If you have TACAN and OP's chart you can do this.

 

I doubt there are any aircraft which would have what you could consider a "full nav database." Most often the data is restricted by geographic areas and specific categories of airports and approaches the operator wishes to use, and the other navigation equipment installed in the aircraft.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Navigation databases aren't relevant to this specific example. The procedure is based on TACAN, not area navigation. An F-5 can properly fly this departure.

I think DCS does it properly. Navigation data is loaded onto aircraft in the same manner as mission data is for combat aircraft, so it makes sense that this information is contained within the missions, and not the map. You can see this with properly built missions.. they include all relevant navigation fixes. In the civilian simulation world FMS data has been separated from the terrain too, and is instead loaded independently by the FMS of your chosen aircraft. Keep in mind that IFR procedures are constantly changing too.Again, this is a TACAN procedure. If you have TACAN and OP's chart you can do this.

 

I doubt there are any aircraft which would have what you could consider a "full nav database." Most often the data is restricted by geographic areas and specific categories of airports and approaches the operator wishes to use, and the other navigation equipment installed in the aircraft.

 

I wasn't in anyway suggesting that a RNAV departure procedure was required to be in the airplane's database for THIS example.

 

Btw, might it actually be incorrect to think of the STOFF2 as TACAN procedure? Is TACAN equipment necessary to fly it? I think it could also be flown with VOR/DME, RNAV or a GPS. If we flew it in our civilian airplane, we'd simply dial in 113.0 into our CDU, set the course knob to the 137, fly the correct heading for the respective runway to intercept R137 from Silverbow and make the crossing restriction. Of course it would be better if it were available in our TERPS database, we'd simply load it into our CDU and use RNAV for the entire departure.

 

My database question was less about this simple procedure anyway than a a more general question about airplanes in DCS. Certainly some of them would have TERPS that could be loaded into their the databases of their real world counterparts. As far as which actual modules would be able to do this, I just don't know, because having flown only flown one of the aircraft from DCS in RL my experience is limited.

 

To clarify what I meant by full nav database - My meaning was a database that includes navaids, fixes, and TERPS relevant to the module's equipment. I think DCS should include at least all the procedures that apply to cover the superset of all the DCS modules that might utilize them them. So for example, modules that include the 430 GPS should likely have a database with all the fixes, approach procedures and arrivals for the equipment it was installed in at least including all the geographical areas in DCS (remember DCS also includes civilian flyable aircraft now). This means that DCS should have this info available and if the module could use it then why not? Not far away we have many civilian airports with a variety of procedures that could at a minimum be loaded in any of the modules that include the 430 GPS some of us paid for.

6700K@4.6 48Gb - 1080Ti Hybrid - Warthog - RIFT

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