OK Flanker Experts just how to you beat an F-15 Online??

[kyjko]

Well, I like the Mig the best, but I'm trying to learn the Flanker now. I think it's really hard to beat a good F-15 pilot online. I'm not crying that I want the R27-EA or whatever it's called, I just want to know how you guys beat those F-15s online. I can easily beat the AI on expert, but human opponents are much more difficult.

 

Mostly I've been hiding in mountains using EOS to try and sneak up on them or I try and pick on F-15s that are engaged with another friendly. Otherwise I just can't beat them 1 on 1 in a head on engagement. Yes, I've read and read about F-POLE and missile beaming but it seems even though I get the first shot off by 10 or more seconds before they launch at me, I just never get a hit. They always seem to break my lock or just plain defeat my missile outright.

 

Other than just trying to dodge all 8 of their AMRAMMS and then chase them down is there any tactic that works in a 1 v 1 engagement head on with equal energy states and co-altitude?

 

It seems if I climb too high above an F-15 to gain a greater F-Pole advantage I can't seem to get a LOCK on them until I am so close that I'm in range of their AIM-120s. If I'm co-altitude I can get the first launch but they almost always break lock when I try to beam their incoming AIM120(s). Naturally, if I'm below them then I'm at an F-Pole disadvantage. About the only thing that seems to work is that after I fire I hit airbrakes and try and slow down as much as possible to decrease my closure rate. But that usually results in a kill for me but also a death for me cause no energy left to manuever against the AIM-120s coming at me. Any tips? advice? anything would be greatly appreciated. please don't take as whine, I think all the planes are balanced pretty good and enjoy flying all of them, but would like to get a little better at flying the SU27. thanks

[MikeRocker]

If slowing right down after launching your missile works, then turning away after launch should work as well. As you know, the essence of an F-pole maneouver is to minimise your closure speed to the enemy after launching, thereby forcing his missile to fly further to hit you while yours gets to him faster.

 

Now the point is that by turning away after launch (maintain lock, though!!), you keep the energy needed to evade the missile coming for you.

 

For more detailed training, try Ironhand's excellent tutorials:

 

http://flankertraining.com/lomac/A2A.html

[uhoh7]

Wow

 

I flew alot online in 1.0 and a bit in 1.01 and the eagles were nearly helpless.

 

I'm getting back into lockon now

 

I asume 1.02 boosted eagle capability in some ways.

 

What has changed to make the f-15s so good?

[Guest ruggbutt]

The radar works now. :D

[GGTharos]

Beating the F-15 online involves high altitude, long range F-Poles and beaming. Lots of F-Poles and beaming. The AMRAAM can easily be defeated at longer ranges if you know what you're doing, and you can bring the engagement to WVR where you have more of an advantage.

 

In many vs. many situaitons, you may have to gang up in 2-on-ones against the F-15s to get the first kills ASAP, then gang up on the rest. Very hard, but worthwhile.

[kyjko]

Beating the F-15 online involves high altitude, long range F-Poles and beaming. Lots of F-Poles and beaming. The AMRAAM can easily be defeated at longer ranges if you know what you're doing, and you can bring the engagement to WVR where you have more of an advantage.

 

In many vs. many situaitons, you may have to gang up in 2-on-ones against the F-15s to get the first kills ASAP, then gang up on the rest. Very hard, but worthwhile.

 

Grayghost,

 

The problem I run into is that I do try and get very high to engage F-15 like 12000 meters+, but the problem is that I can't get a lock on him until we are very close due to ground clutter\jamming cause F-15 is flying lower. By the time I get lock I am already in range to AMRAMM and he either gets first shot or we fire so close together it's a mutual kill.

[GGTharos]

Alright, take care to maange altitude apporpriately then. Lower altitude means shorter engagement range. You STILL have to start throwing missiles at him at 40km..that's almost twice the range fof the AMRAAM. Keep him on his toes.

 

There's no single formula for winning the fight, unfortunately.

 

However, lately the 'low flying MiG' problem has been countered by some F-15 pilots which is good ... anyway, when 1.1 comes along (should be soon) you won't have to worry too much about this I think.

[uhoh7]

Forgive my ignorance

 

the eagle's radar "now works"

 

are there any radar modes of the eagle in 1.02 which will not cause an RWR warning, like the optical mode in the SU? I.E. do I know when the eagle radar is turned on while i'm flying a SU-27?

 

Does the TWS mode show a lock warning on RUS AC?

 

How does the range of the 120c compare with with say, the R27ER?

 

ty in advance

 

uhoh7

[S77th-GOYA]

1. No. Yes, you know.

2. No

3. It's shorter, by a noticable margin.

 

RWR will pick up any radar. EOS isn't radar.

[Kula66]

However, lately the 'low flying MiG' problem has been countered by some F-15 pilots which is good ... anyway, when 1.1 comes along (should be soon) you won't have to worry too much about this I think.

How do they manage this? Care to spill the beans? If I'm high in a F-15, there is a large radar blind spot beneath me that M29s use to get a shot off ... using EOS/73s. If you go down low, you are throwing away your big advantage ... long range radar/TWS ...

 

Thanks, James

[GGTharos]

Simple. Shoot at 25nm, crank and descend. Most of them won't know what hit them, the rest will be defensive and you can pop'em with anotehr and they'll be either forced to run away or they'll make a mistake and try to re-engage you and you can pretty much just shoot'em in the face.

[S77th-GOYA]

Simple. Shoot at 25nm, crank and descend. Most of them won't know what hit them, the rest will be defensive and you can pop'em with anotehr and they'll be either forced to run away or they'll make a mistake and try to re-engage you and you can pretty much just shoot'em in the face.

 

This is the way to beat a 15? In a 27?

 

Or a 29 in a 15?

 

If it's the later, you've left out the part about finding them on radar. That's what the poster seems to be having problems with.

[4c E x p e r t]

hi

 

All these tactics would work if F15 pilot is stupid and go directly to you even if you fire at him.

 

Good F15 pilot with expirience is hard to beat with SU27! F-POLE would work just if he keep going toward you, if not you would just fire that missile away...

 

I usually let him fire first then I turn oposite and after several seconds turn back, than he would be closer to you but you can fire R27ET and than make another distance from him and all that just to make him fire as much missiles as possible and keep distance from him as much as possible too!

 

When you have more missiles than him you can play with F-pole tactics but dont let him come close to you!

 

This is one of my old tactics but they still work sometimes. Dont except to beat him for 1-2 minutes. Very often, against my teammates, I play and more than 20min.. :o

[S77th-GOYA]

How do they manage this? Care to spill the beans? If I'm high in a F-15, there is a large radar blind spot beneath me that M29s use to get a shot off ... using EOS/73s. If you go down low, you are throwing away your big advantage ... long range radar/TWS ...

 

Thanks, James

 

If you've got a Mig under you, you've made a mistake. And you've got a big problem. The trick is to not let them get under you. Usually, the place they try to do this (and the only place they should be able to do this) is in the mountains.

Solution: avoid the mountains. Let them roam around in there all day if they want. They've got to come out sometime. A 15 is at a very real disadvantage in mountainous terrain. Don't play into the enemy's hand.

[SUBS17]

Thats a good tactic, wait for them to come out and fight.

[Kula66]

Solution: avoid the mountains. Let them roam around in there all day if they want. They've got to come out sometime. A 15 is at a very real disadvantage in mountainous terrain. Don't play into the enemy's hand.

Agreed, but those pesky Migs hide in mountains, low down and you just have to go in and and get them ... otherwise I get board!

 

The Eagle is best up high (above the contrail height band!), radar on with 6 AMRAAMs ... but on-line, this tends to attract ALOT of attention, you endup surrounded by Sus/Migs ... and you can't beam them all at the same time!

 

James

[GGTharos]

Simple: If there's a bunch of them, turn around and flee. That is, unless all you care for is just flying in and blasting (or trying to blast) stuff rather than surviving the engagement.

[S77th-GOYA]

Kula, if you really can't stop yourself from going down in those valleys, (and I know it's hard sometimes) keep a talley of your results. Win, loss, draw. While you're in there, don't forget about using your cannon radar. It really helps as long as the bandit is within range. Once you get a lock, turn off cannons and you've got a pretty little missle lock on Igor. (Assuming you had your radar in BVR or vertical mode before you turned guns on) It's a lot more forgiving than vertical mode. Even with all the advise I can think of, a good pilot in a Russian plane is going to kill you down there. Just say no.

 

As far as flying high and attracting attention, I say good. It saves you from having to run all over the map finding them. Look for (and call for) help if you need it and like GG said, running from a overwhelming threat is not cowardly, it's smart. But, just because you see two or three bandits ahead doesn't always mean it's a huge threat. For example, if the lead plane (if there is a lead plane) is higher than the trailers, he's the only one you really need to worry about. Set up and take a couple of shots at him, split-S, and run away. The 15 has speed as one of its advantages, use it liberally. Drop tanks and/or weapons as the situation dictates.

 

For me, no kill is worth dying for. Except for an A-50 AWACS. They must die at all costs.

[Kula66]

Thank for the ideas guys ...

I'll have to look up cannon radar ... I use Vertical mode, but the beam is very narrow ... The other problem with multiple bandits is if they are all jamming, picking the close one (whose I've burned through) out amongst all this jamming strobes ... system seems to prefer locking the strobes!!!

 

James

[GGTharos]

Auto-gun radar will lock onto the largest signature it finds in front of your aircraft, and it's got some pretty wide limits (outside of the HUD).

 

The F-15 can sneak around in those mountains as well as any MiG. You don't have an EOS, but you're good at looking aorund, you can actually engage an enemy fighter in close quarters with a sidewinder and he'll go all 'WTF' on you ;)

[S77th-GOYA]

The F-15 can sneak around in those mountains as well as any MiG. You don't have an EOS, but you're good at looking aorund, you can actually engage an enemy fighter in close quarters with a sidewinder and he'll go all 'WTF' on you ;)

 

I've gotta disagree with you there GG. EOS is stealthy and radar sweeps are not. I'm not saying the 15 is helpless, just at a disadvantage. Sometimes a couple of seconds warning is all you need to save your hide.

 

Also, why is everybody talking about Migs? Su's are just as capable in that situation. I do know of a couple of Mig drivers who love the mountains. Maybe that's why.

[Kula66]

GG, EOS and the helmet sight is just way too dangerous if you have TrackIR ... I consider the Mig more dangerous 'cos of the R-77 ... and I much prefer it to the Su ... much nicer little plane!

 

James

[GGTharos]

Well, they have to see you first. Luck here is important, as is your own positioning and maneuvering - a little intelligence which you can gather while say *ahem* high and a speed dive to a say ah, valley paralelling his, counts a bunch of seconds and if you're lucky he'll be right where you want him and he'll never see you hopping the ridgeline and getting on his six, trackIR or no.

[Kula66]

The only way to go low in the mountains Eagle v M29/Sus is to use external padlock view ... its cheating, but hey it evens the odds.

James

[GGTharos]

No ;)