Last-second WO

[Wolf359]

I am still learning the correct way to land on the carrier. I can hit the wire all kinds of ways, except the right way :music_whistling: So! I am getting closer and closer with practice, but what frustrates the CRAP out of me is a last-second wave off. I mean, there's nowhere else to go but to ignore the LSO and put it down. Which I do. But my question is to a real hornet pilot (or ANY Naval Aviator), what do you do when you get a WO at the very last second? Just gear up and punch it?

 

Let me add: it is usually due to LSO saying I'm too low on those occasions.

[macedk]

Not a real life pilot, but WO should, in my book, start your waveoff procedure, you might still trap due to the circumstances, but you should try to go around in a safe manner.

[AndyJWest]

...gear up and punch it?

 

I'm certainly no naval aviator (or any other sort for that matter), but I doubt that you'd want to raise the gear until you were well clear of the wires. Catching one with the gear halfway up could be embarrassing. ;)

 

Seriously though, the LSO-bot needs more work in my opinion, and as it stands has to be ignored sometimes. Concentrate on making a proper stable controlled approach according to the ball, and don't worry too much about his yelling, or his subsequent alphabet-soup ratings.

[Harker]

First thing you should do for a WO is to increase power in order to arrest your descent and climb. Your gear might still touch the deck and you might still catch a wire, if the WO is given too late, I guess. You don't retract anything unless you've confirmed that you're in a steady climb.

[Wolf359]

Yeah, my "gear up and punch it" was meant figuratively. But I do understand the concept better now. No matter what, I increase power

 

LSO: powweerrrr, powwwerrrrrr

Me: these things have to SPIN up/down, ya know! :lol:

LSO: wave off

[JayBird]

The LSO seems very trigger happy on the wave-off lights.

 

I'll get "you're on glideslope" initially and then no calls up until in close and then for no reason "wave-off wave-off"

 

In most cases, I've made the conscious decision to ignore him and commit to landing.

[Wolf359]

"you're on glideslope" initially and then no calls up until in close and then for no reason "wave-off wave-off"

 

Is it just me, or does he sound grumpy about it?? :lol:

[Jetguy06]

Just an FYI, you don't retract gear or flaps on a WO or bolter. Stay dirtied up all the way back around.

[Wolf359]

Just an FYI, you don't retract gear or flaps on a WO or bolter. Stay dirtied up all the way back around.

 

Copy that.

[Stearmandriver]

In reality, a close-in wave off is an error on an LSO's part, or at least a nonstandard judgment call. If an aircraft initiates a waveoff from too low, there's a possibility of an "in flight engagement" in which the hook (lower than usual because the pilot has pitched up even more to begin waveoff) snags a wire as the aircraft begins to climb. This results in the wire jerking the aircraft out of the air and back down to the deck, seriously damaging or destroying both the aircraft and the arresting gear.

 

My understanding is that the LSO is held responsible for this, as they are not supposed to wave off an aircraft close enough in for that to happen. From a pilot perspective, immediately complying with a waveoff is mandatory.

[Lex Talionis]

When you WO, you pretty much just add power to mill/max no matter where the WO is requested. "WO" doesn't mean "don't touch the deck at all costs" it just means add power, discontinue the approach and the chips will fall where they may. Simply move the throttle to mill or max and let the trim do its job and climb you away on speed. This will effectively ensure that if your WO is "in close" or "at the ramp" or wherever, that even if you do catch a wire it will be at the proper AOA as to mitigate any possibility for an unsafe engagement. If you have an inflight engagement, its probably the front seat stick actuating meat puppets fault for not holding AOA. As far as the game, i dont think the jet would be damaged from an inflight engagement anyway.

Hope this adds context. :)

Edited June 9, 2020 by Lex Talionis

[macedk]

When you WO, you pretty much just add power to mill/max no matter where the WO is requested. "WO" doesn't mean "don't touch the deck at all costs" it just means add power, discontinue the approach and the chips will fall where they may. Simply move the throttle to mill or max and let the trim do its job and climb you away on speed. This will effectively ensure that if your WO is "in close" or "at the ramp" or wherever, that even if you do catch a wire it will be at the proper AOA as to mitigate any possibility for an unsafe engagement. If you have an inflight engagement, its probably the front seat stick actuating meat puppets fault for not holding AOA. As far as the game, i dont think the jet would be damaged from an inflight engagement anyway.

Hope this adds context. :)

 

Thanks man :)

"If you have an inflight engagement, its probably the front seat stick actuating meat puppets fault for not holding AOA" :pilotfly: hahaha.

[G B]

So long as the deck is clear the LSO can trigger the WO lights whenever he needs. If the deck is foul, then there are Waveoff “windows.” The waveoff lights could be commanded a microsecond before touchdown. An LSO a will call for the waveoff whether or not it is physically possible. If you end up trapping, so be it. The waveoff is not only to send you around, the waveoff is to push your hands all the way forward on the throttles. Think of the waveoff as the “ultimate power call.”

 

It’s not like an LSO says “well he’ll probably trap, no point in waving him off now.” Lex is right. So long as you waveoff on speed, it doesn’t matter when the WO is commanded. Maintaining on-speed prevents an in flight engagement. Only an over rotation or slow AOA will contribute to an IFE.

 

If you are commanded a waveoff you could be assigned the waveoff grade even if you trap. It’s possible to get a “ WO 3” or “WO 2” or whatever.

 

A late waveoff is NOT a mistake by the LSO, as was posted previously.

[Wolf359]

Awesome information, fellas! Thank you!

[Stearmandriver]

Interesting! I must have misunderstood what a former LSO told me; I remember him being adamant about the threats inherent in a late waveoff though, and why they were to avoid it? Strange. I think I fly with him again next month, I'll seek clarification!

[G B]

Interesting! I must have misunderstood what a former LSO told me; I remember him being adamant about the threats inherent in a late waveoff though, and why they were to avoid it? Strange. I think I fly with him again next month, I'll seek clarification!

 

There are many carrier landing PLAT videos (including crash videos) that you could look up and see jets get way underpowered and/or low in close, and see the LSOs try to save him by waving him off. Are there threats with late waveoffs, yes. But they aren’t the type that make LSOs *avoid* late waveoffs. Just an awareness.

 

There ARE serious threats with extremely late lineup calls.

[Stearmandriver]

There are many carrier landing PLAT videos (including crash videos) that you could look up and see jets get way underpowered and/or low in close, and see the LSOs try to save him by waving him off. Are there threats with late waveoffs, yes. But they aren’t the type that make LSOs *avoid* late waveoffs. Just an awareness.

 

There ARE serious threats with extremely late lineup calls.

 

Very interesting, thanks. What are the threats with a late lineup call? Just don't want a guy aggressively dipping a wing near the ramp, general destabilization etc?

[G B]

Very interesting, thanks. What are the threats with a late lineup call? Just don't want a guy aggressively dipping a wing near the ramp, general destabilization etc?

 

Exactly right.

 

Check it out:

[Falby]

 

At around 2.30 is a good view of an IFE. Also at 2.10 is a Tomcat landing with what looks like a re-fuel basket still attached!