Depleted Uranium - 7 part video

[Che]

You know what? I'm not gonna even bother - not only are you wrong (mostly), you're also oblivious. You clearly think you're some kind of know-it-all, I might as well smash my head against the wall till it bleeds.

 

BTW, I'm a pre-med student, and hopefully soon-to-be actual med school student. But whatever, you're Applied Physics degree clearly is worth 5 other degrees, including Health Sciences.

 

Calm down you were the one that, arrogantly, said don't quite your day job and then went on to say he was flat out wrong when all the original poster was trying to do was give his perspective of the situation based on his scientific background. So who's the know it all? And I hate to break it to you but a degree in applied physics is worth 5 pre-med courses. Pre-med is like high school in some countries, eg a student in the UK taking "pre-med" A-levels (three or four science subjects), so it really isn't a trump card in this silly game of my credentials are higher than yours so I'm right nonsense.

[Groove]

Guys please. The topic is about DU if someone forgot this.

 

So either we continue on topic or the mods will close this rather interestic thread.

[D-Scythe]

Calm down you were the one that, arrogantly, said don't quite your day job and then went on to say he was flat out wrong when all the original poster was trying to do was give his perspective of the situation based on his scientific background. So who's the know it all? And I hate to break it to you but a degree in applied physics is worth 5 pre-med courses. Pre-med is like high school in some countries, eg a student in the UK taking "pre-med" A-levels (three or four science subjects), so it really isn't a trump card in this silly game of my credentials are higher than yours so I'm right nonsense.

 

...

 

Thanks for chiming in, your explanation about DU and it's radioactive effects were spot on. Best I've seen in fact.

[D-Scythe]

BTW, the definition of "Mutation" after a quick Google search:

 

- are the changes of a gene from one allelic form to another (ie, the nucleotide sequence changes).

 

- Changes in the molecules of heredity in reproductive cells.

 

- Change in the character of a gene. Passed from one cell division to another.

 

- a change in the usual DNA sequence of a particular gene that prevents the gene from working normally. Not all changes in genes are mutations. Some changes are beneficial, neutral, or normal variants (such as the changes that lead to different eye colors).

 

- A chemical change in the genes of a cell causing it to show a new characteristic. Some produce evolutional changes, while others produce disease.

 

Wow, would you look at that. All of these definitions agree with my "theory" that mutations only deal with DNA. I would look through my textbooks, but they're rather long.

[SimFreak]

Finished watching first part...and end part of it seems....odd. MOPP gear does NOT protect vs radiation. Although that women implied that it does.... It will protect in full MOPP4 from inhaling that crap and skin contact from other chemicals...thats it.

[Kuky]

The reason anti radiation suit will protect you from DU is becuase like they said, DU primarily radiates Alpha particles which are not very penetrabale but are the most damagable IF they enter the system. They are not very penetrable because Alpha particle is very large and traveles only few cm in air, but because it's so large it does lot of damage in human (or any living organism) if it ends up being consumed.

 

So the concern is that once you enhale some of the dust containing DU you end up with having very damagable radioactive particles right in your body of which there is no more protection and it's like having mini X-Ray machine in you.

[SimFreak]

The reason anti radiation suit will protect you from DU is becuase like they said, DU primarily radiates Alpha particles which are not very penetrabale but are the most damagable IF they enter the system. They are not very penetrable because Alpha particle is very large and traveles only few cm in air, but because it's so large it does lot of damage in human (or any living organism) if it ends up being consumed.

 

So the concern is that once you enhale some of the dust containing DU you end up with having very damagable radioactive particles right in your body of which there is no more protection and it's like having mini X-Ray machine in you.

 

That does without saying. :) Polonium tea as a nice example. I'm talking about part when she was pointing onto commanding officer who was wearing MOPP0 saying that "Look! He is protected". Readiness in AF teach this stuff constantly... maybe army should look into their training....

[GGTharos]

And that is exactly what you want to avoid. A lot of the fallout causes radiation that won't really penetrate your MOPP gear. But if the dust settles on you, or in you, then you have to worry.

 

In the case of DU, I think the radiation is a secondary concern if you inhale it ... you're basically already screwed.

[Groove]

Inhaling DU aerosole is basically putting Alpha radiation source in your body. Very bad idea. Im with Kuky!

[Kuky]

That does without saying. :) Polonium tea as a nice example. I'm talking about part when she was pointing onto commanding officer who was wearing MOPP0 saying that "Look! He is protected". Readiness in AF teach this stuff constantly... maybe army should look into their training....

 

I am sure she was simply pointing out how army never told them of any negative (more like dangerous) effects and what if any percautions should be taken where as the general, of course, had the protective gear. Point being, the army does not consider this to be of hasard as many army spokesepersons talk against any dangers of use of DU. If they did the troups would have to be prepared for low level radiation conflict, but then again that would be against the Geneva convention, which in turn would make the US admit they are doing what they are talking they are fighting against... weapons of mass destruction... and illegal warfare.

 

Anyway, I don't think all mutations are DNA alterations. For example what happens in skin cell once it becomes cancer cell? Of course science knows skin cancer is caused by radiation coming from the sun but doesn't know how this happens, maybe if they did they could cure it. I think in case of cancers DNA is not altered, and the cell simply turns bad (I don't know how to describe it otherwise) and the cancer spreads by this newly created/altered cell multiplying. Also according to this (see bellow) DNA and genes are not the same thing.

 

"Deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) is a nucleic acid that contains the genetic instructions used in the development and functioning of all known living organisms. The main role of DNA molecules is the long-term storage of information. DNA is often compared to a set of blueprints, since it contains the instructions needed to construct other components of cells, such as proteins and RNA molecules. The DNA segments that carry this genetic information are called genes, but other DNA sequences have structural purposes, or are involved in regulating the use of this genetic information"

 

IN the end I won't comment on this more as after all I am not a doctor nor have I done extensive research on the subject. What I did comment on is effect of UD as source of nuclear radiation in human body as I have done a subject on in when I was at UNI.

 

Surely UD (as explained in the video) also poisons the body as a heavy metal, but again I don't know much on this subject either so I leave it be. What some people should not do however is disrespect someone's ability and credibility especially when they themselves don't have much of it on the subject to begin with.

[D-Scythe]

Anyway, I don't think all mutations are DNA alterations. For example what happens in skin cell once it becomes cancer cell? Of course science knows skin cancer is caused by radiation coming from the sun but doesn't know how this happens, maybe if they did they could cure it.

 

UV radiation from the sun strikes the DNA molecules, forming dimers between thymidine bases. Thus, science does know how sunlight causes skin cancer. However, knowledge of the disease mechanism doesn't necessarily equate to a cure - take the HIV virus for example. Science knows how HIV attacks CD4 T-cells (specialized white cells that act as the "AWACS" of the immune system), but as of yet there is no cure.

 

Also according to this (see bellow) DNA and genes are not the same thing.

 

You've got to be kidding right? Genes are sequences of DNA. That's just a basic fact that even Wiki will explicitly confirm.

 

You're problem is that you're looking at DNA simply *just* as a genetic blueprint of a cell. It isn't. All cellular processes require DNA, not just the ones involving cell replication. Cells manufacture proteins to carry out all its cellular activity - guess what codes for and plays a key role in the expression of these proteins? DNA.

[Kuky]

D-Scythe, one question for you:

 

Does each and very cell contain DNA in itself or is this DNA information being transported by nervous system to each cell telling it when it should divide, what function to have, when to stop multiplying and when to die?

[tflash]

If I understood literature correctly, the toxic nature from Polonium comes entirely from its being radio-active. It is the radiation effects of Polonium that killed mr. Litvinenko. The question at hand is whether the toxic nature of depleted uranium also amounts to it being radio-active? The wikipedia article claims it is more chemically toxic than by radiation:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium#Chemical_toxicity

 

I'll have a look in the Web Of Science if I find something, but I'm not familiar with this subject.

[D-Scythe]

Does each and very cell contain DNA in itself or is this DNA information being transported by nervous system to each cell telling it when it should divide, what function to have, when to stop multiplying and when to die?

 

Each and every cell in your body has its own complete set of DNA, that's identical to every other set of DNA in other cells of your body - barring mutations in other individual cells and some specialized white blood cells called lymphocytes. Oh, and obviously sperm/eggs. Anyway, despite the fact that cells have the same DNA, there are clearly different types of cells in your body - red blood cells, muscle fibres, neurons, etc. - the differences in these specialized cells arises from the fact that although each cell has its own set of DNA, cells express that DNA differently. Brain cells won't use their DNA in the same way as pancreatic cells and start secreting insulin, for example.

 

The nervous system principally transmits information by integrating electrochemical inputs, either from different sensory cells (like from the retina) and/or other neurons, then passing that information on to another neuron or an effector cell (like a muscle to reflexively respond to a stimulus from the eye). The complexity arises from how neurons behave and how they integrate information under the stimulation of these inputs. Well, in a nut-shell anyway.

 

In any case, no, DNA is never transmitted extracellularly in mammalian cells. Bacteria can pick up random DNA in the extracellular environment, but even so, in terms of its own genome (its complete set of DNA) everything is intracellular.

 

Radiation works by mutating the DNA, at a rate faster than the cell's DNA machinery can repair the damage. This can lead to the faulty expression of DNA - the same expression that is critical to the function and identity of the cell. Remember, DNA is under constant expression in a cell - what differentiates one cell type from another is the manner of which the DNA is expressed. Mutations screws this system over completely, and genes (segments of DNA) that are normally suppressed become active, and vice versa. In the case of cancerous mutations, the mutations alter the genes that normally govern the growth rate of the cell (among other things) - hence, the cell loses the ability to control it's growth and starts replicating, making many new cells.

 

Hence, a tumour. That's the Spark Notes' version anyway. But back to the original point, mutations are mistakes in DNA generated by radiation. Cellular mutations are just manifestations of DNA mutations.

[TucksonSonny]

I have found this to be very nice documentary on use of depleted uranium ammunition. It gets more and more "interesting" towards the end, very sad if you ask me :noexpression:

 

Part 1

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=551_1179479196

 

 

The Abrams tanks that were using depleted Uranium ammo had about 1000 meter advantage in range versus conventional ammo (this was about the same advantage of the tiger I over the Sherman and the t-34 in 1943 during WWII).

 

Basically “Blitz krieg” all over again in the Gulf.

Anyway the German tank crews were not cheating with “dirty” weapons…

[D-Scythe]

Anyway the German tank crews were not cheating with “dirty” weapons…

 

Yeah, cause war is all about "fairness" :megalol:

[tflash]

Wow, a quick scan of the Web of Science shows that there is still lively interest in the subject! Depleted uranium (DU) is considered toxic, both radiologically and chemically. It poses cancer and kidney disease risks under acute exposure. The whole discussion though is about the chances of such exposures by contact with DU munitions (as e.g. expended by GAU-8 Avenger cannon). Studies I found dispute this possibility as being marginal. [i think it stands beyond doubt that the most lethal effect of the Avenger munition is kinetic!]

 

Anyway, the most recent studies show work on environmentally friendly coating of DU.

[TucksonSonny]

Yeah, cause war is all about "fairness" :megalol:

 

What is so funny? Even Sadam was not using chemical weapons (read dirty weapons) against the US troops.

 

"fairness" :music_whistling:

 

WWI, Mustard Gas (Yperite), Geneva convention, Ring, Ring?

[D-Scythe]

What is so funny? Even Sadam was not using chemical weapons (read dirty weapons) against the US troops.

 

"fairness" :music_whistling:

 

WWI, Mustard Gas (Yperite), Geneva convention, Ring, Ring?

 

"Ring ring" yourself. I'm not gonna mud-wrestle with you.

[Kuky]

Actually TucsonSonny is right... you may not call it funny or unusual for dirty tactics/weapons are being used in war, but so much for hypocracy comming from those claiming to do the right thing fightnig against those who use dirty weapons etc and they are the ones doing this... not to mention lying, or not even telling their own troups they are in danger as well... some joke huh?

[D-Scythe]

Actually TucsonSonny is right... you may not call it funny or unusual for dirty tactics/weapons are being used in war, but so much for hypocracy comming from those claiming to do the right thing fightnig against those who use dirty weapons etc and they are the ones doing this... not to mention lying, or not even telling their own troups they are in danger as well... some joke huh?

 

And once again, DU is no more toxic than any other heavy metal.

[Groove]

Now that everybody expressed his view on DU i will close that topic.

 

Have a nice day!