Any suggestions for Rudder Pedals

[ChK6]

Hello everyone! I have been a long time user of CH HOTAS, and just recently made the switch to the Thrustmaster Warthog. Im looking for ideas, and thoughts on the rudder pedals. VKB...or? My flight time is pretty much split between fixed wing, and rotary.Thank you.

[MustangSally]

MFG Crosswind - https://mfg-sim.com/en/

[Mr. Big.Biggs]

MFG Crosswind - https://mfg-sim.com/en/

 

Agreed!

[Gladman]

Yep, MFG.

[shu77]

Depends what you want to spend, I have a set of Saitek pedals which have done fine for years.

[Razorback]

For rotary wing : one of the best or even the best one is for sure the VKB T.rudder. Very precise and accurate.

Just discussed on that on a FB page and everybody agreed !

I bought mine a few months ago after a lot of comparaison ...for sure I will not change it for another one !!

Once again I just speak for the RW, I never used the VKB rudder with FW.

[Lucidus]

I have Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS + MFG Crosswind, they are excellent.

[Vertigo72]

Im not a fan of typical "rotating pedals", doesnt feel like anything Ive ever flown IRL (which, mind you, doesnt include any military jets). Probably great for snowboard simulations though :)

 

My brother has VKB T-rudders, which suits me much better and feel a lot more natural and closer to real airplanes:

https://vkbcontrollers.com/?product=vkb-t-rudders-mk-iv

 

No toe brakes though, which is a bummer

 

Thrustmaster TPR with pendulum pedals is even more what I would like to have,... but that price tag is hard to swallow.

 

So I may build my own TPR replica based on this:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4407778

Edited June 25, 2020 by Vertigo72

[Fri13]

Hello everyone! I have been a long time user of CH HOTAS, and just recently made the switch to the Thrustmaster Warthog. Im looking for ideas, and thoughts on the rudder pedals. VKB...or? My flight time is pretty much split between fixed wing, and rotary.Thank you.

 

50/50 between fixed wing and rotatary, then definitely VKB Mk IV pedals.

 

You do not need toe brakes on modern fighters, and even with WW2 ones you can have modifier for the pedals to use tail wheel.

 

The toe brakes are just for "immersion" that you have that capability if required.

 

 

As you fly helicopters as well, you want VKB. You will slightly add compromise with VKB for the not having realistic pendulum actuation mechanic that the Thrustmaster TPR has:

 

https://shop.thrustmaster.com/en_gb/pc/tpr-thrustmaster-pendular-rudder.html

 

But with all the others, you don't get what helicopters has that VKB offers. Add the pleasure to use pedals, small footprint, nice option to raise pedals to have more horizontal movement than vertical, and two spring strengths adjustments, IMHO best on the market.

 

For the dedicated flight chair or any normal chair the VKB is just nicest. As you are not required to move your hip, knees or whole leg to use them. The VKB requires just very slight ankle movement to be use. And that is best thing you can get for helicopters, as well for home simulator for fixed wings. As you are not there operating against a real aerodynamic forces, you don't likely sit in deep cockpit, you don't have G-forces etc that are requiring the designs that real jets etc has. Why you need optimal design for home simulator design.

 

And the best part with the VKB is that when you fly with helicopter, you do maneuvers like rolls etc with F-14 that requires "dancing on pedals" a lot, the VKB is so gentle and smooth that you do not even notice that you are using them. It becomes "unthinkable" action to use. And that is how it should be in helicopter, that you do not even think about the movement you need to do, as if you think then it is already too much. And the design is such that it doesn't get any friction or other problems in time. They stay smooth and soft, with good center notch that doesn't at all interfere with tiniest motions.

 

I have had many of the pedals except the Thrustmaster TPR. But by experience I would say that I wouldn't like the TPR over VKB one. But if I would need to choose two, it would be TPR + VKB. If I would need to choose one, it would be VKB. If I would need to choose for any helicopter flying, it would be VKB.

[Fri13]

So I may build my own TPR replica based on this:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4407778

 

Looks good!

 

Must say that the mockups always looks very nice etc. But when one doesn't have a factory to biuld all parts exactly as designed (thanks today to 3D printers, if one gets good material use for printing) it comes possible.

 

But very interesting how many would go to these other designs than basic sliding ones.

[Vertigo72]

Must say that the mockups always looks very nice etc. But when one doesn't have a factory to biuld all parts exactly as designed (thanks today to 3D printers, if one gets good material use for printing) it comes possible.

 

 

There are picture of actual printed ones on there, I think they look great. And they would sit under my desk anyhow, so its not like I really care. And if you do, you can finish these prints so they look indistinguishable from factory made stuff.

 

More concerning is durability. It does look a weebit fragile to be made mostly out of 3d printed plastic. But it you dont use overly strong springs (and I like light rudders anyhow) and you dont have a habbit of stamping your feet in frustration, it may work. Wouldnt expect it to last quite as long as those massive metal TPRs though.

 

Im waiting for the designer to publish a metric version, as finding imperial sized tubes and bolts here is tough. Once he does, Ill just try it. Its gonna cost me next to nothing, filament is cheap, I have plenty of bearings and I should have some teensy or leobodnard boards somewhere.

Edited June 25, 2020 by Vertigo72

[Quadg]

mfg crosswinds.

and I fly mostly helicopters.

minimal centre detent (you can choose the centre detent you want with different parts) and you can run them with no spring. so holding the pedals right where you need them is easy for long flights.

they are also wider apart and have full pendulum so they are very precise.

build quality is excellent.

you can quickly hook the spring back on for flying fixed wing. and adjust spring strength on the go.

[Fri13]

More concerning is durability. It does look a weebit fragile to be made mostly out of 3d printed plastic. But it you dont use overly strong springs (and I like light rudders anyhow) and you dont have a habbit of stamping your feet in frustration, it may work. Wouldnt expect it to last quite as long as those massive metal TPRs though.

 

There are already some very durable filaments, sure the price goes up if one needs just for one project it, but there is typically no problems what so ever to keep doing something else with it.

 

Im waiting for the designer to publish a metric version, as finding imperial sized tubes and bolts here is tough. Once he does, Ill just try it. Its gonna cost me next to nothing, filament is cheap, I have plenty of bearings and I should have some teensy or leobodnard boards somewhere.

 

Annoying things those imperial things, like some is by purpose trolling whole hobby industry by those decisions.

 

I have come to conclusion that it is better these days basically to do own controllers if knows how to solder or even just make some parts come together. Just because leobodnard kind elements that makes it super easy to do what wanted.

 

Going back over 10 years when we had lots of mechanical based controllers, it was better purchase the premade ones. But these days when we have nice contactless sensors, we can do amazing things with them.

I still prefer high quality manufacturer products when you get them all together nicely, like VKB. But to make something unique and special, nothing beats self made.

[Vertigo72]

There are already some very durable filaments,

 

At the end of the day, its still plastic, and weaker even than most injection molded plastics because of limited layer adhesion. Or its not plastic when you can print polycarbonate or nylon, but then you get other problems like warping and shrinking and bed adhesion, especially with something as big as those parts. IMO thats only going to be feasible in abs/pla/petg and abs might be tricky already.

 

BTW, for those who prefer snowboarding style pedals, you can DIY those too:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3475445

[ChK6]

Thank you everyone for the awesome, and informative feedback!! I have decided to go with the VKB MK IV. Took a long look at the Crosswinds, and the TPR, but I would have had to make some alterations...im into a Volair chassis, and the width becomes an issue toward the front end.I see that guys have done it for both, but I have things perfect right now as far as footplate height and seat position. Thanks again!!

[Aviators]

in the past I had MFG Crosswind. I have now switched to the VKB T-Rudder. Very fluid and precise.

Or take VKB T-Rudder or Slaw Device Viper.

[MustangSally]

Then the MFG crosswinds would be perfect.

 

 

 

Im not a fan of typical "rotating pedals", doesnt feel like anything Ive ever flown IRL (which, mind you, doesnt include any military jets). Probably great for snowboard simulations though :)

 

My brother has VKB T-rudders, which suits me much better and feel a lot more natural and closer to real airplanes:

https://vkbcontrollers.com/?product=vkb-t-rudders-mk-iv

 

No toe brakes though, which is a bummer

 

Thrustmaster TPR with pendulum pedals is even more what I would like to have,... but that price tag is hard to swallow.

 

So I may build my own TPR replica based on this:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4407778

[javelina1]

MFG Crosswind - https://mfg-sim.com/en/

yep, and another yep!

[bigjoe4265]

VKB T-Rudders Mk. IV or Thrustmaster TPR.

[MustangSally]

VKB T-Rudders Mk. IV or Thrustmaster TPR.

 

 

T-rudders - limited to helicopters. The Virtual Toes brakes are pretty dismal. I sold mine due to this aspect.

 

 

Thrustmaster - Nice but stupidly expensive. If you are considering these then SLAW's would be a much better buy.

 

 

MFG Crosswinds - Quality, Price and service. Say no more really.

[Vertigo72]

Then the MFG crosswinds would be perfect.

 

Ahem. Nope. Those are exactly what I dont like and what I meant by "rotating pedals": anything where your feet move in a circular motion as if you are controlling a steering wheel with them.

 

edit: when Im wrong, Im wrong. I said I didnt know any real plane that used such a geometry, but it turns out the spitfire maybe did:

https://goactionstations.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/R19-NH341-4-Fuselage-controls.jpg

 

Although I cant tell for sure if the those pedals moved in an arc around the center pivot or linearly relative to the mounts at the bottom or "both". Given the width of the central pivot arm vs their limited movement, it probably makes little difference and much less than with crosswinds and the like.

Edited June 26, 2020 by Vertigo72

[MustangSally]

They dont move in a circular motion. Feet stay parallel during movement. You remove spring and dada...no centering!

 

 

Ahem. Nope. Those are exactly what I dont like and what I meant by "rotating pedals": anything where your feet move in a circular motion as if you are controlling a steering wheel with them.

 

edit: when Im wrong, Im wrong. I said I didnt know any real plane that used such a geometry, but it turns out the spitfire maybe did:

https://goactionstations.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/R19-NH341-4-Fuselage-controls.jpg

 

Although I cant tell for sure if the those pedals moved in an arc around the center pivot or linearly relative to the mounts at the bottom or "both". Given the width of the central pivot arm vs their limited movement, it probably makes little difference and much less than with crosswinds and the like.

[Fri13]

They dont move in a circular motion. Feet stay parallel during movement. You remove spring and dada...no centering!

 

All those has circular motion. Pedals stays parallel yes, but pedals moves closer together when you rotate them more, even when they are on two axis.

 

And spring is not what is problem, the problem is as well there is no fluidity. That is why you want to mod all those typical pedals with a dampening rod.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3815351&postcount=1

 

So remove the spring, add dampening rod and you get better feeling to those rotating pedals.

 

Using any rotating pedals without spring is extremely annoying because your whole legs are from the hip connected to them. Even your upper body movement affects to it. That is the beauty of the VKB design that your legs does not rest on the pedals. And your hip movement doesn't affect to your pedals vertical movement.

 

And if you want a horizontal movement, you can extend the adjustment bolts on it and you get to raise pedals to horizontal direction. If you add own extension to it, you can get exactly inverted pendulum like Thrustmaster TPR is, but you need to raise feets slightly.

 

And adding a dampening rod to VKB is very easy, as the axis bolts are visible.

[Vertigo72]

They dont move in a circular motion. Feet stay parallel

 

 

 

Also, try using those kinds of pedals with your knees tied together, and you will discover you are not really using your feet, but your legs. Thats what makes it awkward to me.

Edited June 26, 2020 by Vertigo72

[MustangSally]

Well get the T- rudders then. If the majority of your flying is in fling wings then the VKB pedals will suit you

 

Oh and by the way, that pic is imcorrect. The mfg's dont pivot in the centre.

Edited June 26, 2020 by MustangSally