F-16 DERIVATIVES

[Xilon_x]

 

 

 

 

which would you prefer among these 3 Orientals deriving from the 'f16?

or would you prefer f-16 plus. in the 4 image.

 

[Northstar98]

Meh, personally I'm interested in older US derivatives, such as a late -80s/early 90s F-16C Block 40 and/or a late-80s F-16A Block 15 /Block 15 OCU.

Out of the list, the only one I'm really interested in is the Mitsubishi F-2A, but it's not just an F-16 variant per se, it has a largely different airframe (even if it looks similar), different cockpit, different avionics, AESA RADAR (nothing in DCS has one, how it works is completely different for a mechanical RADAR, and we only have a sparse number of modules that model mechanical RADARs properly, and of those modules, all of them are WIP and some functions are absent. The rest have RADARs that are more approximated).

The rest of them deviate a lot from the F-16, I wouldn't even call them derivatives, they're completely different aircraft. Designed off of the F-16? Yeah sure. But a variant of one? Wouldn't say so.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Northstar98
formatting

[stormrider]

F-16 ADF

[Xilon_x]

F-21 Lockheed Martin

 

 

 

[Furiz]

Why would you want another version of the same plane, better to get something else, MiG 29 SMT or upgraded SU-27 (35) or Dassault Rafale, Gripen maybe?

 

We are getting Eurofighter that is great, more diversity is what the game needs,

 

everyone seems to be flying F18 now, well most people and it is kinda boring on MP servers, they just pack 8xJSOW and gg

F18 is great ofc I have it, it is on sale constantly very cheap too compared to JF-17 price,

 

although JF-17 is a nice plane as well but it is much more expensive than the hornet or the viper, so why would you buy JF17? When you can do it all with Hornet or the Viper (when it is done), talking bout gen 4 planes ofc.

 

 

So when you look at the gen4 picture atm we have the cheap and great Hornet,

 

the cheap but not so finished Viper,

The JF17 which is twice as expensive as the hornet due to hornet being constantly on sale,

 

And M2000 which isn't so popular.

 

 

So Hornet here we go:P

 

 

And you want a new Viper version ;D duh...

Edited June 30, 2020 by Furiz

[Northstar98]

Furiz said:

Why would you want another version of the same plane, better to get something else, MiG 29 SMT or upgraded SU-27 (35) or Dassault Rafale, Gripen maybe?

Because the MiG-29SMT and Su-27M/Su-35 are out of reach because government and the other 2 exacerbate the problem of lack of peer assets.

We currently have mid-2000s era F/A-18C and F-16C, what are they up against? Nothing newer than the mid-to-late 80s, apart from some Chinese ships... So a 2 decade gap. For some context 2 decades is the time between the Hawker Tempest, a WWII piston engined fighter, and the F-4C Phantom II, carrier capable, supersonic, radar equipped jet, capable of firing guided missiles...

Furiz said:

We are getting Eurofighter that is great, more diversity is what the game needs

Disagree, DCS currently doesn't have a single era that's anything like fleshed out.

• WWII? Improving but still not that big.
• Early Cold War? Only the F-86F, MiG-15Bis and the MiG-19P, next to no appropriate ground units or ships... We don't really even have appropriate air defences...
• Mid to late Cold War? Plenty of ground assets, a fair few ships, a fair few lo-fi and hi-fi aircraft. There's also the MiG-21 and F-5E-3 as well as the F-14
• 2000s+ literally exclusively BLUFOR: F/A-18C, F-16C Block 50, AV-8B N/A, arguably the Mirage 2000 and the F-15C. No ground units at all apart from 1 Chinese Tank; and more crucially, no air defences. We do have some ships with arguably the Arleigh Burke Flt.IIA (early) and the Chinese ships. Apart from that, nothing for REDFOR at all, absolutely zip.

So we have a jumble of eras, of which none is fleshed out (they're improving, but they're still fairly far away from being comprehensive), IMO one of the things DCS doesn't need is another aircraft era to provide diversity, it needs to flesh out it's current eras first, it's more consistent and it's more accurate.

Besides, the F/A-18C and the F-16C (when complete) will pretty much eclipse everything REDFOR in DCS World, in pretty much every single way, by a fairly long margin. The only contemporary is the JF-17, an aircraft solely operated by Pakistan, which isn't even strictly REDFOR.

The Russian government firmly stands in the way of doing hi-fi modern Russian aircraft - we'd be extremely lucky just to get a Soviet era MiG-29S Fulcrum-C or basically any Su-27 (including the first production prototype, let alone an M or a -35). I don't know if Deka would be able to model a Chengdu J-10 or something. But we're still completely missing contemporary air defences and ground units apart from a grand total of one Chinese tank.

Furiz said:

everyone seems to be flying F18 now, well most people and it is kinda boring on MP servers, they just pack 8xJSOW and gg

How would adding more modern aircraft, that can do basically the same thing but are even more capable, with even more modern munitions, going to solve this?

Instead of F/A-18s we'll get whatever Gen IV+ aircraft there is, and instead of JSOW, it'll be SCALP EG/Storm Shadow/TAURUS KEPD 350...

Furiz said:

F18 is great ofc I have it, it is on sale constantly very cheap too compared to JF-17 price,

 

although JF-17 is a nice plane as well but it is much more expensive than the hornet or the viper, so why would you buy JF17? When you can do it all with Hornet or the Viper (when it is done), talking bout gen 4 planes ofc.

Because not everyone just wants the hottest, most capable thing, if I did, I would've purchased the F/A-18C and F-16C and there done... Meanwhile I own most modules. This is because I'm interested in the aircraft.

I personally love the Tomcat, I love the challenge of handling it, and using it. This might sound silly, but I almost feel like I'm involved in it when using it, it's just so immersive. With modern aircraft, I'm more just on the sidelines getting a computer to hold my hand and do everything. I enjoy the challenge the Tomcat brings, and I find it more rewarding when I get something right. I also feel that it's a near perfect fit for the current asset pool in DCS.

Are more modern stuff more effective? Sure. Are they more fun? Hard to say. They can be a real blast, I don't not enjoy the F/A-18C and the F-16C, but I find they're less rewarding once I get something right. This isn't a knock at the developers, I think that when the 2 are finished they'll both be brilliant modules (they already are). But I don't find them as rewarding, because I'm less challenged, they're simply easier to use, because the aircraft themselves were designed to make things easier, in order to maximise effectiveness. The thing is, it's only Gen III/early Gen IV that are like this.

I mentioned the asset pool but there's also another thing that DCS isn't really up to scratch with, that is a fundamental aspect of Gen IV+ and that is EW, from ELINT to Jammers/ECM to chaff.

Even when you look at RADAR modelling in DCS, there's only like 2-3 modules that have RADARs that are actually more or less-feature complete, with real beam mapping implemented, resulting in a very accurate portrayal of the real RADAR in terms of clutter. Everything else is approximated (an example of this is the F-5E-3's RADAR)

And these are older, purely mechanical RADARs, the most modern from the 70s... What's going to happen when we try doing modern PESA or even worse AESA RADARs?

Also, what about sourcing information? TrueGrit are in a favourable position in that they're working with the manufacturer and the management agency of the Typhoon, that's why they can do one. But the variant we're getting isn't even certain AFAIK, and it's most likely years away. Here's a brilliant overview of Typhoon variants and based off of this, realistically, I'm expecting a Tranche 1 Block 5/SRP 4.3 at best.

Furiz said:

And you want a new Viper version ;D duh...

Makes more sense than adding modern Gen IV+ with absolutely no contemporaries in DCS whatsoever. And adding another era making DCS more of a jumble than it already is.

I'm sorry, if it weren't for these unfortunate facts I wouldn't be against Gen IV+, it's just they don't really fit right now, when there are so many aircraft that do, all the while being easier to source information and SMEs, while allowing current assets to keep their relevancy.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Northstar98
formatting, spelling