What is it about Lockon...

[RedTiger]

...that draws so many knowledgable and experienced people? Its bloody amazing, and makes discussions like a minefield! You must always assume that the person who you talk to has real life experience or has done serious study on the topic at hand.

 

But I dont get it, I mean, first Lockon is a survey sim with limited avionics. Second, there are several things that everyone agrees are modeled incorrectly or are out of whack. Yet there are all kinds of experts and people with real experience that are part of the community. Maybe I'm missing it, but I just don't see this nearly as much with other sims' communities. You don't see a lot of hardcore discussion about PESA vs. AESA radars, for example. The discussion resembles a frat house more than the scholarly debate that goes on around here. :smartass:

 

I can remember participating in wargame forums a few years back. Most of the guys "in the know" were historians and professors. There were a handful of retired military people, but very very few were active duty.

 

Its almost as if the sims all the switchology attract a whole different crowd than Lockon. You'd think that a "nerdy" sim with all the buttons and avionics would attract all the people who want to seriously discuss hardware and tactics. But its just the opposite from what I've seen! Lockon has all the nerds! :lol: (myself included in that statement. :) ) I wonder if this will change now that the move by ED is towards these types of sims.

[GGTharos]

I could emulate Mower for you if you like.

 

'Weaponeering!'

'Cockpit workload!'

 

... am I forgetting anything? :D

[Yeniceri]

...that draws so many knowledgable and experienced people? Its bloody amazing, and makes discussions like a minefield! You must always assume that the person who you talk to has real life experience or has done serious study on the topic at hand.

 

But I dont get it, I mean, first Lockon is a survey sim with limited avionics. Second, there are several things that everyone agrees are modeled incorrectly or are out of whack. Yet there are all kinds of experts and people with real experience that are part of the community. Maybe I'm missing it, but I just don't see this nearly as much with other sims' communities. You don't see a lot of hardcore discussion about PESA vs. AESA radars, for example. The discussion resembles a frat house more than the scholarly debate that goes on around here. :smartass:

 

I can remember participating in wargame forums a few years back. Most of the guys "in the know" were historians and professors. There were a handful of retired military people, but very very few were active duty.

 

Its almost as if the sims all the switchology attract a whole different crowd than Lockon. You'd think that a "nerdy" sim with all the buttons and avionics would attract all the people who want to seriously discuss hardware and tactics. But its just the opposite from what I've seen! Lockon has all the nerds! :lol: (myself included in that statement. :) ) I wonder if this will change now that the move by ED is towards these types of sims.

 

 

Good point..

I was wondering the something too..

Awesome community..

I don't know what attracted these almost handpicked ppl here..

[HavokFlight]

Honestly, I think it is like being on a highway, with several other different roads, and thruways all parallel to it, everyone speeding along. However, there is only one bridge, all the others are now closed. Lockon is the only one that remains open, even though the only ones painting it and maintaining it are those that are speeding across it.

 

My question is ... what is on the other side ?

[GGTharos]

DCS :D

[RedTiger]

I could emulate Mower for you if you like.

 

'Weaponeering!'

'Cockpit workload!'

 

... am I forgetting anything? :D

 

Change you signature to something like "blah blah OpenFalcon blah blah" and I'd wonder how he managed to hack your account. :megalol:

 

Honestly, I think it is like being on a highway, with several other different roads, and thruways all parallel to it, everyone speeding along. However, there is only one bridge, all the others are now closed. Lockon is the only one that remains open, even though the only ones painting it and maintaining it are those that are speeding across it.

 

My question is ... what is on the other side ?

 

Wow, that was almost poetic! But are those other bridges really closed? More specifically aren't there new bridges being built on top of the old ones? DCS hopefully won't be the only game in town in the next 5 years.

 

 

I play F4AF all the time and I play Lockon all the time. However, besides Simhq, I really only post here. I like the community and I've learned a lot from everyone here.

 

My theory on why things are the way they are is due to the community's multiplayer focus. I don't play head to head stuff anymore, swore off it years ago and haven't touched it since. However, I think that the nature of competition forces people to really examine the aircraft and weapons involved and really discuss how their RL counterparts work. I don't think this is as previlent in other sims that more study sim-ish and don't have as strong of a multiplayer base. The need just isn't there. I've tried discussing issues I've found with red planes in F4AF on simhq and pretty much found that no one cared.

 

Thats why I wonder how things with DCS will pan out, seeing as how its all study sim.

[GGTharos]

I think you mostly hit it on the head. The nail that is. Also, another reason is that you now have dissimilar aircraft with allegedly dissimilar capabilities, and everyone wants their edge according to what's published and said of those aircraft, where in say, F4 no one cares 'cause everyone's viper and missiles work the same and are supposed to work the same. You can't really make a claim that something was done 'for balance' which isn't the case in LOMAC - mind you, LOMAC is a pretty light sim in terms of avionics etc, which does NOT mean it should take away from the feeling of BVR etc, insofar at least as it comes to employing and defeating missiles ... and right now LOMAC is a little too quirky to make that work right.

[tflash]

Honestly, I never understood why Lockon is considered a "lighter" sim than F4:AF? What is so difficult about using keystrokes? Even the administration software I use (from SAP) is more complex than F4:AF cockpit.

 

Complexity in a combat sim has nothing to do with number of buttons, but everything with *flight* en *fight*.

 

The FBW F-16 is just WAY more easy to fly than what we have in Lockon, and its brilliant avionics are exactly doing what they are supposed to: making A2A combat more easy and carefree for the (virtual) pilot.

 

I find bombing with the Phantom in WOV e.g. way more "hardcore" than using CCRP in the Falcon.

 

 

I agree with GGTharos' analysis: "Also, another reason is that you now have dissimilar aircraft with allegedly dissimilar capabilities, and everyone wants their edge according to what's published and said of those aircraft, where in say, F4 no one cares 'cause everyone's viper and missiles work the same and are supposed to work the same."

 

That's why I have such a different opinion on DCS, but I will have the politeness not to vent it out here ;)

[SuperKungFu]

Also, i think the attitude here is a lot better than other forums. Here, most people know when to talk professionally and when to joke around a little. In other forums, if you mention one thing out of place, the whole forum just jumps on top of you. So that's why I like to hang around in the lock on forums.

[159th_Viper]

Honestly, I never understood why Lockon is considered a "lighter" sim than F4:AF?......

 

LockOn Aviators less likely to suffer from 'Mouse-Wrist' related Medical Maladies, perhaps?

 

:D

[RedTiger]

Honestly, I never understood why Lockon is considered a "lighter" sim than F4:AF? What is so difficult about using keystrokes? Even the administration software I use (from SAP) is more complex than F4:AF cockpit.

 

Complexity in a combat sim has nothing to do with number of buttons, but everything with *flight* en *fight*.

 

The FBW F-16 is just WAY more easy to fly than what we have in Lockon, and its brilliant avionics are exactly doing what they are supposed to: making A2A combat more easy and carefree for the (virtual) pilot.

 

I find bombing with the Phantom in WOV e.g. way more "hardcore" than using CCRP in the Falcon.

 

 

I agree with GGTharos' analysis: "Also, another reason is that you now have dissimilar aircraft with allegedly dissimilar capabilities, and everyone wants their edge according to what's published and said of those aircraft, where in say, F4 no one cares 'cause everyone's viper and missiles work the same and are supposed to work the same."

 

That's why I have such a different opinion on DCS, but I will have the politeness not to vent it out here ;)

 

Its considered lighter because, well, it is. I'd define pressing two buttons and watching your engines spool up as "lighter" than a full ramp start in F4 which can take several minutes. Basically, you just have more control over things. You can program counter measure programs, changed the default funnel width on EEGS, change the bar scan setting on the radar, you have more radar modes, etc. You actually have a knee board with frequencies for various airfields and you have to use in case of landing at an alternate. There's also TACAN and ILS stuff which is deceptively difficult to understand, for me anyways.

 

What Falcon fans DON'T tell you is that when the fighting starts, its not much different than Lockon, especially the F-15. Sure, the missiles work better, but the tactics in Lockon that actually resemble real life also work in Falcon. The only difference is that Lockon doesn't have a plane with A/G radar and all but the F-15C are far less sophisticated. That alone makes comparison of the two questionable in my book. People make a big deal about the campaign. Its nice for a randomly generated series of the same missions over and over. ;) Its cool, but its not the end-all be-all its made out to be.

 

I just like it because the AMRAAM works well and the enemy fighter AI seems to be decent enough to provide a challenge. Having a plane that can kill SAMs if it needs too is nice too. I use the mission editor far more than the campaign.

[Aeroscout]

Its considered lighter because, well, it is. I'd define pressing two buttons and watching your engines spool up as "lighter" than a full ramp start in F4 which can take several minutes. Basically, you just have more control over things. You can program counter measure programs, changed the default funnel width on EEGS, change the bar scan setting on the radar, you have more radar modes, etc. You actually have a knee board with frequencies for various airfields and you have to use in case of landing at an alternate. There's also TACAN and ILS stuff which is deceptively difficult to understand, for me anyways.

 

What Falcon fans DON'T tell you is that when the fighting starts, its not much different than Lockon, especially the F-15. Sure, the missiles work better, but the tactics in Lockon that actually resemble real life also work in Falcon. The only difference is that Lockon doesn't have a plane with A/G radar and all but the F-15C are far less sophisticated. That alone makes comparison of the two questionable in my book. People make a big deal about the campaign. Its nice for a randomly generated series of the same missions over and over. ;) Its cool, but its not the end-all be-all its made out to be.

 

I just like it because the AMRAAM works well and the enemy fighter AI seems to be decent enough to provide a challenge. Having a plane that can kill SAMs if it needs too is nice too. I use the mission editor far more than the campaign.

 

It's interesting you mention this as this is my whole idea behind lockon.

 

Lockon has it where it counts. lockon is a combat simulator, thus it will simulate combat. I don't need all the complexities of actually flying the plane EXACTLY as if i was actually there, and unless i actually have a fully functional cockpit with a huge screen all around me, i don;t want to because i have to fumble with a mouse (which is unrealistic to a point). As long as everything is represented (as it is in lockon) i'm happy. I'm thinking this is what makes lockon so great. It doesn't have all the complexities, which only the extremely devoted have time for, yet it's still VERY realistic and, like i said, it has it where it counts, thus it draws a very large audience.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Brit_Radar_Dude]

I'd never really been into the whole Internet thing or Forums before I bought Lockon, so I just assumed they were all as friendly and knowledgable as the Lockon Forums. You know what? They're not.

There are some top class folks on the various Lockon Forums, it was cool to meet some of them in person (IguanaKing, 214th_Hitman, SkoPro, S77th_ReOrdain and IronHand) when I was last in the US on vacation.

 

 

So keep flying the friendly Lockon skies......

 

.....and Forums.

[RedTiger]

I'd never really been into the whole Internet thing or Forums before I bought Lockon, so I just assumed they were all as friendly and knowledgable as the Lockon Forums. You know what? They're not.

There are some top class folks on the various Lockon Forums, it was cool to meet some of them in person (IguanaKing, 214th_Hitman, SkoPro, S77th_ReOrdain and IronHand) when I was last in the US on vacation.

 

 

So keep flying the friendly Lockon skies......

 

.....and Forums.

 

Roger that! OT but, Hehe, but your response made me think of it. I read an article about the US government planting people in online games to see if there were any patterns in the communities that might indicated the presence of terrorism. I would be really interested to see those spooks start to fear for the future of humanity after spending some time in your average online game community full of teenagers -- where anonymity means anything and everything is fair game and you're torn to shreds if you show the slightest bit of intelligence or divergent opinion.

[Weta43]

While DCS might be going to be a 'hard core study sim' It looks like maybe ED's going to release roughly role paired aircraft fairly close to each other in the module order - a red attack helicopter, & a blue attack helicopter in the first 3 releases. ED talked about a MiG-29 variant, & a Blue multirole to fly against it.

That said though, it'll be more apparent whether they're going to work to that philosophy when they say what module 4 will be...

If it turns out that is the plan, that should be enought to keep the kind of back & forth technical discussion that makes this place interesting alive.

(As long as all the servers don't insist on the full manual startup procedure)