F16FLCS-SME Posted September 21, 2020 Posted September 21, 2020 FLCS BIT does not fail if certain switches are at their wrong position. The following switch positions should cause FLCS BIT to fail. MANUAL TF FLYUP - DISABLE DIGITAL BACKUP - DIGITAL ALT FLAPS - EXTEND LE FLAPS - LOCK AIR REFUEL - OPEN LANDING GEAR HANDLE - UP ADVANCED MODE - PUSHED Trims way out of zero The reason is those switches need to be at a certain state which is safe for takeoff regarding certain FLCS gains.
randomTOTEN Posted September 21, 2020 Posted September 21, 2020 MANUAL TF FLYUP - DISABLE is this still true if our representative aircraft doesn't have TF, and thus no FLYUP program? I'm not any kind of expert, just asking. Thanks.
F16FLCS-SME Posted September 21, 2020 Author Posted September 21, 2020 The DFLCC OFP should be about the same, unless someone else can prove otherwise.
randomTOTEN Posted September 21, 2020 Posted September 21, 2020 Got it. So even though the system might not be installed, the BIT is still looking at the switch position. Interesting!
DrBackJack Posted September 21, 2020 Posted September 21, 2020 is this still true if our representative aircraft doesn't have TF, and thus no FLYUP program? I'm not any kind of expert, just asking. Thanks. Shouldn't it be capable of automatic TF by coupling to the digital terrain database? I know the digital terrain system can provide database terrain cueing (DBTC) in the HUD.
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted September 21, 2020 ED Team Posted September 21, 2020 Bit test failures are work in progress currently. thank you Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, PIMAX Crystal
Stubbies2003 Posted September 22, 2020 Posted September 22, 2020 (edited) FLCS BIT does not fail if certain switches are at their wrong position. Don't forget about the lovely Trim A/P Disc in disc. How many times I've seen that trip up pilots. :) Edited September 22, 2020 by Stubbies2003
F16FLCS-SME Posted September 22, 2020 Author Posted September 22, 2020 I knew I forgot something... Thanks Stubbies2003!
Zohardv Posted September 23, 2020 Posted September 23, 2020 Also FLCS - MAINT (shout disable control surfaces movement altogether)
Stubbies2003 Posted September 23, 2020 Posted September 23, 2020 Also FLCS - MAINT (shout disable control surfaces movement altogether) Well you are kind of in left field here as it doesn't relate to the OP since being in maint completely removes power from the FLCS thus there is no way to even do a BIT and fail it.
F16FLCS-SME Posted September 23, 2020 Author Posted September 23, 2020 Thats a common mistake. Maint removes power for the entire FLCS only when connected to external power. When the engine operates, the FLCS PMG is the one supplying power because it has the highest voltage relative to the other FLCS power sources. FLCS PMG is routed directly to the CONV/REG so the Maint relays can't disconnect it. -1: "For maintenance use on the ground. Inoperative in flight"
Zohardv Posted September 23, 2020 Posted September 23, 2020 Well you are kind of in left field here as it doesn't relate to the OP since being in maint completely removes power from the FLCS thus there is no way to even do a BIT and fail it. You are absolutely right. The question is, CAN you run a BIT in DCS while this switch is in MAINT? Or will it fit in a BIT failure?
Zohardv Posted September 23, 2020 Posted September 23, 2020 (edited) Thats a common mistake. Maint removes power for the entire FLCS only when connected to external power. When the engine operates, the FLCS PMG is the one supplying power because it has the highest voltage relative to the other FLCS power sources. FLCS PMG is routed directly to the CONV/REG so the Maint relays can't disconnect it. -1: "For maintenance use on the ground. Inoperative in flight" Not sure about the technicalities, but I can clearly remember once that a pilot started a jet while this switch was in MAINT. He got a Christmas tree of warning lights and FLCS faults. Couldn't proceed with launching. Edit: or maybe it happened because the bird was starting up while using external power? :huh: Edited September 23, 2020 by Zohardv
F16FLCS-SME Posted September 23, 2020 Author Posted September 23, 2020 Not sure about the technicalities, but I can clearly remember once that a pilot started a jet while this switch was in MAINT. He got a Christmas tree of warning lights and FLCS faults. Couldn't proceed with launching. Edit: or maybe it happened because the bird was starting up while using external power? :huh: Thats a bad thing for seveal reasons. It means the ground crew did not setup the cockpit for launch. It means the pilot did not perform BATT-TEST. It means the pilot did not perform EPU-TEST since he needs to check the 4 green FLCS POWER lights are on. What you described is impossible. In Maint, according to your claim, FLCS has no power. It means no FLCS caution or warning light can come on. Maybe the aircraft was connected to external power and the pilot tried to perform some checks before engine start. A possible explanation is: FLCS PMG did power the FLCS. BIT failed for some reason which caused the FLCS FAULT, FLCS warning and MASTER CAUTION and maybe TO LAND CONFIG to come on, hence a Christmas tree...
Zohardv Posted September 23, 2020 Posted September 23, 2020 Thats a bad thing for seveal reasons. It means the ground crew did not setup the cockpit for launch. It means the pilot did not perform BATT-TEST. It means the pilot did not perform EPU-TEST since he needs to check the 4 green FLCS POWER lights are on. What you described is impossible. In Maint, according to your claim, FLCS has no power. It means no FLCS caution or warning light can come on. Maybe the aircraft was connected to external power and the pilot tried to perform some checks before engine start. A possible explanation is: FLCS PMG did power the FLCS. BIT failed for some reason which caused the FLCS FAULT, FLCS warning and MASTER CAUTION and maybe TO LAND CONFIG to come on, hence a Christmas tree... Without going into too many details. This launch was part of a drill, simulating an emergency scramble where everything that has two wings and an engine must takeoff immediately. The aircraft was just finishing maintenance and that's why the switch was in MAINT position. Due to the urgency, the cockpit was not prepared - by the book - and that is why the switch was overlooked by the ground crew. Furthermore, and this is me speculating, due to the urgency of the drill, the pilot did not perform BATT-TEST, but hit the Start-2 once jumping into the cockpit. This is actually the usual procedure for scrambles when the JFS is started while the crew are sitting in and fastening their harnesses.
F16FLCS-SME Posted September 23, 2020 Author Posted September 23, 2020 Yes, I'm quite familiar with that policy during an emergency drill... However, even in extreme emergencies, FLCS BIT has to pass, otherwise the pilot has to abort and move to another jet.
Stubbies2003 Posted September 23, 2020 Posted September 23, 2020 (edited) Thats a common mistake. Maint removes power for the entire FLCS only when connected to external power. When the engine operates, the FLCS PMG is the one supplying power because it has the highest voltage relative to the other FLCS power sources. FLCS PMG is routed directly to the CONV/REG so the Maint relays can't disconnect it. -1: "For maintenance use on the ground. Inoperative in flight" Ah well obviously as a maintainer I wasn't running the engine for my work. Yeah the conv/reg take in all sorts of power and work the best one to the FLCS. Looked this one up in the CDCs and perhaps it has been fixed in newer ones but the FLCS switch operation wasn't clear enough on the more specifics of it. Looking at the area specifically about FLCS power covered it well enough. The FLCS actually gets forced on as soon as you go start 1 or 2 and then stays forced on after engine start per the CDC. I was A shop by trade so I did work some FLCS but not to this level obviously. Edited September 23, 2020 by Stubbies2003
Stubbies2003 Posted September 23, 2020 Posted September 23, 2020 Yes, I'm quite familiar with that policy during an emergency drill... However, even in extreme emergencies, FLCS BIT has to pass, otherwise the pilot has to abort and move to another jet. Yeah the pilot not even checking the abcd and batt to flcs indication is definitely the biggest culprit there. If the pilot had done that then this wouldn't have happened at all.
F16FLCS-SME Posted September 23, 2020 Author Posted September 23, 2020 CDC. Forgive my ignorance, but what is a CDC? I am familiar only with Centers for Disease Control...
Stubbies2003 Posted September 23, 2020 Posted September 23, 2020 Forgive my ignorance, but what is a CDC? I am familiar only with Centers for Disease Control... Career Development Course. The volumes we get to go from 3 to 5 level then from 5 to 7 level as well as WAPS testing.
F16FLCS-SME Posted September 23, 2020 Author Posted September 23, 2020 I just noticed that after shutting down the engine but leaving the MAIN PWR switch in MAIN PWR, FLCS BIT can be engaged. Thats wrong as it is only a utility function and does not work on battery power.
Zohardv Posted September 23, 2020 Posted September 23, 2020 I also think that touching the controls while performing the BIT might result in BIT failure. Also, I remember that in cold weather, the pilots used to "stir" the controls. Just give the stick a little wiggle around the center in order to "heat up" the hydraulics. Otherwise the BIT would fail. Don't know if it's an urban legend, bad habit or a substantiated process.
F16FLCS-SME Posted September 23, 2020 Author Posted September 23, 2020 I also think that touching the controls while performing the BIT might result in BIT failure. As a general rule, the pilot should not touch the stick and rudder during BIT. However, it is less critical than the analog FLCS where Self Test would almost certainly fail. -1 claims that other preparations can be done during BIT. By my experience, it increases the chance of BIT failure and actually increases the time it takes the pilot to launch. Also, I remember that in cold weather, the pilots used to "stir" the controls. Just give the stick a little wiggle around the center in order to "heat up" the hydraulics. Otherwise the BIT would fail. Don't know if it's an urban legend, bad habit or a substantiated process. You are correct, this is highly recommended and an absolute must at cold weather, including the rudder pedals! Warming the hydraulic fluid is an urban legend. The reason is to remove air bubbles in the hydraulic fluid. Using an external hydraulic cart (mule or TTU) for several hours can still cause BIT to fail, because of the air bubbles, not the oil temp...
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