CASE III advice please

[Reflected]

I'm practicing Case III approaches in really bad weather, where the landing area is not visible. I do everything by the book. Up to 3/4 miles I'm on glideslope, on centerline, following the needles.

 

The problem starts after calling the ball. I start drifting off centerline, and as I start chasing it I mess up the glideslope too. How do you keep on centerline when the visibility is so bad you can't see the lights of the landing area? In close even the slightest deviation makes the needle move to one side quickly. Because there isn't any visual reference, once I bank the aircraft to get back on centerline I get a bit confused about the attitude.

 

Any hints and tips?

 

Thanks in advance!

[sLYFa]

Would you even fly in such conditions? IIRC minimums for ICLS are 300ft vertical and 3/4 mile forward visibility. Anything below that would probably require at least mode Ia (i.e. full auto and uncouple once you are visual with the boat).

[AG-51_Razor]

Smaller inputs? Don't forget that, as you get closer to the boat (or runway threshold for that matter) the "cone" is getting smaller and smaller so use very small inputs to correct a deviation.

 

 

Are you building the mission yourself? If so, try putting the wind off to the left of the final bearing. This will help eliminate crosswind components on final. :thumbup: Test it by going to the LSO position and looking at the carrier deck icon to the left of the PLAT screen. A number with an S or p indicates a crosswind component from either starboard or port. If you are flying these landings by hand, you need all the help you can get.:joystick:

[oreste]

I have read your difficulty, in my opinion you should do the same mission with better visibility several times.When you feel safe and have acquired a certain familiarity and feeling of the times and the various maneuvers move on to the next mission that is add less visibility. (Gradually ) You will see that everything will be fine because by now you have learned the maneuver, I am not saying that you can do it with your eyes closed but .. almost.

[Reflected]

Thanks, I'll go for some less "varsity" night traps first. I know I need less correction in close, it's just hard to get the aircraft's wings level and stabilize.

 

The wind is down the angle. I'll check the LSO plat, thanks!

[majapahit]

ACLS is exactly invented for weather like this, I'd say,

 

and I severely doubt when viz is less than the threshold (and more), you're allowed by the boat boss to land by hand,

 

and make yourself a severe risk to the boat, the crew, not to mention you might kill the boss if he happens to be in the Island when you plough through it.

 

Then again DCS is a sim, and off course you must try if you are able to do this.

[AG-51_Razor]

I've read several personal accounts as well as having seen several HUD videos of pilots in a/c without ACLS landing in WX where the ball is not in view, or at least discerenable in the video, until literally seconds before crossing the round down. It's true that these type of approaches are a danger to the pilot as well as the carrier, but they are carried out nonetheless when there is no alternate available. This is one of the reasons I believe, that Naval Aviators enjoy the reputation they have as.....massive alcoholics!! :megalol:

 

 

 

Seriously though, my Dad was a Naval Aviator back during WWII and Korea and I have a very high regard for him and his fellow aviators that trained for that kind of precision and carried it out on a daily basis.

[majapahit]

a. "where the ball is not in view, or at least discernible in the video " but maybe was in reality by just a speck, would be my bet, I'd say because that gives you the opportunity.

or,

b. if you happen to be on the needles 3nm out in DCS in full blackness just keep practicing staying on the needle for a boat that is slowly crawling to the right, and do his 255 times (start wind 0), I bet you have 50% chance to trap a wire,

otherwise

c. do 1555 times more, and I guarantee you'll have 51% chance of trapping.

Edited September 29, 2020 by majapahit

[viper2097]

IIRC, Victory said, that they never really used ACLS and he self was only able to get it working two times in his whole Tomcat career.

 

For Case III with real bad weather, the only advise is, to train with better visibility and pay attention that you are aligned perfect. Fly according the ICLS so thst you don't have to make any (big) corrections. When hitting 3/4 of a mile, fly visual and forget the needles.

Only pay attention to you altitude and the LSO.

Wave iff if you feel unsafe.

 

The weatber you are describing is probly a once in a lifetime situation - and there I'll guess they would divert. I've seen only one video on youtube where they had to land during REAL bad weather and blue ops. Man, those were pictures when they waved off... Sorey, don't have the link in my mind.

[majapahit]

IIRC, Victory said, that they never really used ACLS and he self was only able to get it working two times in his whole Tomcat career.

ehm that's bad, bummer, ACLS is great fun.

 

When hitting 3/4 of a mile, fly visual and forget the needles.

The weatber you are describing is probly a once in a lifetime situation - and there I'll guess they would divert. I've seen only one video on youtube where they had to land during REAL bad weather and blue ops.

That's his/OP point, landing in 0% viz, 100% black.

In DCS if you just have 1 light pixel which is on the boat, to fly the last 3 or 1 mile in (know where that pixel is on the boat helps) you can stay on the glideslope.

I would think its either impossible or non-repeatable in 100% black, but he definitely should try that anyway ;)

I guess in really really bad weather, the Boat Boss will just light the boat up like a torch?

Edited September 29, 2020 by majapahit

[sublime]

ehm that's bad, bummer, ACLS is great fun.

 

That's his/OP point, landing in 0% viz, 100% black.

In DCS if you just have 1 light pixel which is on the boat, to fly the last 3 or 1 mile in (know where that pixel is on the boat helps) you can stay on the glideslope.

I would think its either impossible or non-repeatable in 100% black, but he definitely should try that anyway ;)

I guess in really really bad weather, the Boat Boss will just light the boat up like a torch?

 

I heard the same too and never use it.

From what I heard it was used.. ONCE, to test it and NEVER again.

why?

one, I think the pilots were hesitant to change, to take away that pride, that pilots control

two, it takes a helluva lot of faith to let a machine, esp back then, land you on a carrier. and most carrier pilots, have and perhaps need the macho 'f that I can do it better myself!' attitude.

[CBenson89]

Just use the automatic carrier landing system it works like a dream!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[majapahit]

I heard the same too and never use it.

From what I heard it was used.. ONCE, to test it and NEVER again.

why?

one, I think the pilots were hesitant to change, to take away that pride, that pilots control

two, it takes a helluva lot of faith to let a machine, esp back then, land you on a carrier. and most carrier pilots, have and perhaps need the macho 'f that I can do it better myself!' attitude.

You're describing KLM pilots who hand-fly ILS landings all the time, any weather (this I heard while ago) because they 'need their competence up to par' is their excuse.

 

I also heard Asian liners don't allow their pilots ILS hand flying (CAT whatever), which actually caused several (deadly) misfortunes, but they'll have probably fixed that through more pilot training now.

Then again Schiphol airport not too long ago discovered pilots (Afghanistan Airlines or something) were flying with fake falsified pilot licenses, and all their flights were cancelled by Schiphol pronto until they would see proof of a fix. How about that.

Edited September 29, 2020 by majapahit