Recommended Cahff/Flare sequence

[Zohardv]

Hi all.

The default program just throws away 10 dispensables at a constant pace without having any noticeable effect.

So I want to program the ALE-47 to have a proper response to threats.

 

Can someone recommend for a proper Chaff/Flare sequence for the following situations:

1. Pre flaring (while bandit is closing in and about to launch a fox 2)
   
2. Defeating a fox 2 head on
   
3. Defeating a fox 2 fired from behind
   
4. Defeating SAM
   

Thanks

[Glide]

I use program 3 all the time, and it's effective enough.

[WHOGX5]

Judging from irl videos pre-flaring seems to usually be single flares dropped at approximately 1 second intervals. For Fox-2, both head on and cold, I've usually always had 6 flares with 0.2 second spacing. For SAM defence I usually have 3x chaff at 0,33 second intervals, and then keep dropping them until I can visually verify that the missile isn't tracking anymore or I leave the notch. That's just me though, don't know if it's correct. Would be interesting to see which settings other people use.

 

And for the F-16, I always have Program 1-3 set to different chaff and pre-chaff programs, 4 set to pre-flare, my 6x flare program set to CMS left and a chaff & flare emergency dispense to the slap switch.

[CarbonFox]

How do you dispense a single chaff/flare with one push instead of dispensing multiple? I've tried setting it to Bypass mode and still get multiple flares dispersing.

[dundun92]

You are using the wrong button if its dropping multiple CMs with the switch in bypass. Dont use the "CHAFF/FLARE SWITCH" binding, use CMS left. Always worked for me.

 

As for optimal CM preset, against fox 2s I drop 5 flares with a very short interval, 1-2 bursts is usually enought to defeat any IR missile if you aerent in AB. If its tail espect just dispense a 3rd one. You simply dispense until you see the missile LOS rate shift aft as its tracking the flare. As for preflaring, I suppose something like 2 flares every 1-2 seconds would work, though I personally dont use it (as ive found it not to be quite as effective as just dropping your 5 flare sequence when you spot the smoke trail, its not hard.)

[Zohardv]

I find pre flaring to be very effective in DCS. I can see how enemies easily defeat my Fox 2s if I was foolish enough to shoot it on a pre flared A/C (especially head on or high aspect). Even when I get a decent tone, the missile will eventually lose track more often than not.

I use CMS aft for pre flaring and had another button on the throttle programmed to execute "panic" (CMDS program 5). I just need to figure out the quantities so it would be effective enough, but not too wasteful on dispensables.

[Noctrach]

Pre-flaring doesn't really work in DCS for the simple reason that I'm 95% sure the flare acceptance/rejection is executed on the missile rather than the launch platform.

 

The missile as a self-functioning game object isn't in existence prior to weapons release.

What "pre-flaring" does in DCS is increase the volume of flares in the seeker head at the moment of firing i.e. when the missile is "created" in the game world.

Since flare rejection is just a dice roll, more flares means there's a bigger likelihood of the missile going for a flare instead of your aircraft.

 

The best "pre-flare" routine is therefore "whatever keeps at least 5-6 flares in the missile's field of view at any point in time".

In my experience this is something like 2 flares every second or so, which means you burn through your flare supply in absolutely no time at all.

 

All flares dropped that expire prior to missile launch are pointless, since DCS doesn't really simulate the launch platform being spoofed by flares...

 

As a result, just dumping 6 flares in extremely rapid succession the moment you see a missile trail is by far the most effective and flare-efficient way of doing things.

 

I've tested this extensively with the F-16 and Ka-50 against a setup of 50 launcher of various types.

Pre-flaring ALWAYS gave worse results than dumping a bundle of 5-6 flares after the missile was already in the air.

Conversely, dumping that bundle at the right time post-launch made me almost impervious to IR missiles, so that was nice at least.

 

 

There's no difference in doing this for front or rear aspect shots, except rear shots are much harder to decoy so you might want to either increase flare volume (double it) or run the program while executing a break turn to put the missile in front of your 3/9 line (forward hemisphere) to obscure your exhaust.

 

From a "game" perspective, DCS is kinda binary in how it simulates flare effectiveness, so this is your rule of thumb:

Aft hemisphere - Ineffective, forward hemisphere - Effective.

Afterburner on - Ineffective, Afterburner off - Effective.

Adjust your flare volume based on this.

 

 

As for chaff, by itself it's almost ineffective at decoying missiles and should be used in conjunction with a notching manoeuvre.

Therefore a similar program should be used as for flares and you'll get the best results by timing the program with your notch (i.e. dump 6-8 bundles of chaff in rapid succession while you execute your defence)

[Zohardv]

That's weird. I'm pretty sure that you can lock on and have a tone if you point your seeker to an airborne flare. This means that pre flaring might give your adversary a good tone, believing he (or she) has you locked on, while the missile is tracking a flare. I can also recall countless times where firing FOX 2 on a pre flared target resulted in the missile losing track just a few seconds into its flight.

I usually refrain from wasting a good missile on a pre flared target. If I do so, its only to cause the adversary to lose time, flares and energy on trying to beat the missile. It only works if you have another fox2 at hand, ready to launch once your adversary is "tired".

[Northstar98]

For me against IR guided I use bursts of 5-6 flares with an interval of 0.2/0.25 seconds. Against RADAR guided I use essentially the same program but with 0.5 second intervals.

 

I only ever set 1 salvo.

 

For pre-flaring (mainly against IR manpads/SAMs) I'd set 1 burst, but salvos of up to 6 with 1-2 second spacing.

[Noctrach]

That's weird. I'm pretty sure that you can lock on and have a tone if you point your seeker to an airborne flare. This means that pre flaring might give your adversary a good tone, believing he (or she) has you locked on, while the missile is tracking a flare. I can also recall countless times where firing FOX 2 on a pre flared target resulted in the missile losing track just a few seconds into its flight.

 

Nope, try it yourself in the mission editor, even with uncaged IR missiles on modules like the MiG-21 and F-5 you cannot get a tone on flares since they do not exist as "objects" in that sense.

The reason you see "pre-flaring" work is because once the missile is in the air, tracking YOU, it will also start tracking all flares dropped BY YOU and start the dice-roll.

So if there's enough flares in the air at time of firing, the missile has a pretty good chance of going for one on the first time it calculates what to do.

 

Note I emphasise how they have to be flares released by YOUR aircraft. The missile will ignore countermeasures from all other aircraft. This means you cannot "buddy-flare", something which is done a lot in helicopter attack runs irl.

 

I'm not saying pre-flaring is wholly ineffective, but it doesn't work like pre-flaring at all. It works exactly like post-flaring but is less reliable.

 

Apologies if this seems like "gamifying" it too much, but unfortunately this is one aspect where the modeling in DCS is really exceptionally shallow.