The fighter fight: MiG-29 vs. F-15 vs. Su-27 vs. Su-33

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

There's a reason why the F-15 has no EOS. It's radar is a /monster/, but that again is not modeled.

Yeah so the monster says "here I am", and the knight silently launches R-27P (EP?), R27-ET or R-73. And the monster is ....

 

That's why there is usually 5 (or more) monsters in a theater for every bleeding knight out there ...

 

There is nothing wrong with Russian birds. Likewise, western built equipment is not bad either.

[GGTharos]

There's certainly something to be said about wishful thinking :)

[Pilotasso]

R-27P wouldnt do much for the flanker. Its basicaly a SARH missile with cut back guidance. An export stunt, and I think I read somewhere the russians dont even use it because R-27ER already does that as a last ditch measure against breaking lock and thus very poor PK.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

R-27P wouldnt do much for the flanker. Its basicaly a SARH missile with cut back guidance. An export stunt, and I think I read somewhere the russians dont even use it because R-27ER already does that as a last ditch measure against breaking lock and thus very poor PK.

”I think I read somewhere” the R-27ER “software change” made it capable to home on radar source, dramatically increasing its PK.

 

Don’t forget the signal from the target radar is hundreds, thousands (?) of times stronger then the reflecting signal from a guiding radar. :) So the “monster”, if to survive, will most likely have to turn itself off. Then comes the EOS …

 

Of course, in real life, opponents don’t have R-27EP or, AWACS, or technology and on top of all that, opponent is grossly outnumbered. Imagine you play on Hyperlobby and on red side there are 14 MiG-29A and on blue side are 100 F-15's ...

 

I fly F-15 every now and then. It is capable airplane.

[monotwix]

That barely made any sense.

The MiG-31 radar features similar performance to the APG-63v1 with potentially better ECCM capability and of course, multi-tracking.

 

Since the monster radar was making sense to you, well I thought perhaps you could plot f-15 and Mig-31 on the monster radar scale so at least some could make sense of such description and if there is the time to plot Su-27 on it as well please do so.

Oh! and by the way what else has not been modeled in lock on?

[GGTharos]

”I think I read somewhere” the R-27ER “software change” made it capable to home on radar source, dramatically increasing its PK.

 

You didn't read it anywhere. The R-27ER is not reprogrammable.

 

Don’t forget the signal from the target radar is hundreds, thousands (?) of times stronger then the reflecting signal from a guiding radar. :) So the “monster”, if to survive, will most likely have to turn itself off. Then comes the EOS …

 

Except the radar pans all the time, and the target is moving; the missile doesn't have a steady source to home in on, and Pk is DECREASED dramatically. So much for that theory. And that doesn't account for the R-27ER not keeping up with modern radar technology which may easily transmit signals that are out-of-band for the missile.

There's a reason why the USAF has continued to go with radar missiles mainly, despite the alleged existance of those nifty 'anti-radiation' missiles. Hint hint.

 

Of course, in real life, opponents don’t have R-27EP or,

 

Because it's not very useful. Hint hint.

 

AWACS, or technology and on top of all that, opponent is grossly outnumbered. Imagine you play on Hyperlobby and on red side there are 14 MiG-29A and on blue side are 100 F-15's ...

 

I fly F-15 every now and then. It is capable airplane.

 

 

Funny, in LOMAC the MIG-29A's would be racking up the kills. Sounds like something isn't terribly well simulated.

[GGTharos]

Since the monster radar was making sense to you,

well I thought perhaps you could plot f-15 and Mig-31 on the monster radar scale so at least some could make sense of such description and if there is the time to plot Su-27 on it as well please do so.

 

Monster radar scale:

 

MiG-31

|---------------|

F-15C

|-------------|

Su-27

|----|

MiG-29A

|--|

 

 

How's that? ;)

 

Oh! and by the way what else has not been modeled in lock on?

Lots, and lots, and lots of stuff. Including the little fact that F-15's will block out ailerons to roll in high-AoA situations and use rudder instead.

 

The fact that the nose isn't raised up as AoA increases.

 

Automatic antenna tracking of TWS PDT (and something similar for the Russian birds, in fact)

 

IR missile tone missing from Russian birds.

 

Poor AWACS reports.

 

That's just a small sample. You'll have to do search to collate the rest ;)

[nscode]

You didn't read it anywhere. The R-27ER is not reprogrammable.

 

Got source on that? I'd reeeeeally like to see it :)

 

Only russian missile electronics I've seen is the K-13 (R-3)

[GGTharos]

There was a description of R-27R ECCM somewhere (probably on this forum?) that ED got from the manufacturer I believe; it looked like a very simple setup implemented in hardware. Maybe though it was just an export, too :P

[S77th-konkussion]

Yeah so the monster says "here I am", and the knight silently launches R-27P (EP?), R27-ET or R-73. And the monster is ....

 

That's why there is usually 5 (or more) monsters in a theater for every bleeding knight out there ...

 

There is nothing wrong with Russian birds. Likewise, western built equipment is not bad either.

 

 

:megalol::megalol::megalol::megalol::megalol:

[Geier]

 

IR missile tone missing from Russian birds.

 

 

 

Oh, really that? What's the system?

[GGTharos]

I am not certain what you mean with your question, but the Russian birds, just like the US birds, are supposed to have an audible tone confirming missile seeker lock for heaters :)

[Geier]

I am not certain what you mean with your question, but the Russian birds, just like the US birds, are supposed to have an audible tone confirming missile seeker lock for heaters :)

Never heard about it. As I know Ru-birds just indicate ПР for Lock IR/radar missiles without any tone.

May be I'm wrong of course:)

[Vekkinho]

I am not certain what you mean with your question, but the Russian birds, just like the US birds, are supposed to have an audible tone confirming missile seeker lock for heaters :)

 

Nah...no need for Growl when there's Natasha's sweet voice telling you Pusk Razryeshon!

[nscode]

There is a tone in the Phi0 mode (in LO)

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

You didn't read it anywhere. The R-27ER is not reprogrammable.

Are you talking to me or to Pilotasso? We both used the same "credible source"?

[Teknetinium]

 

Monster radar scale:

 

MiG-31

|---------------|

F-15C

|-------------|

Su-27

|----|

MiG-29A

|--|

 

 

How's that? ;)

 

Lots, and lots, and lots of stuff. Including the little fact that F-15's will block out ailerons to roll in high-AoA situations and use rudder instead.

 

The fact that the nose isn't raised up as AoA increases.

 

Automatic antenna tracking of TWS PDT (and something similar for the Russian birds, in fact)

 

IR missile tone missing from Russian birds.

 

Poor AWACS reports.

 

That's just a small sample. You'll have to do search to collate the rest ;)

 

 

 

:doh:

[Pilotasso]

Are you talking to me or to Pilotasso? We both used the same "credible source"?

 

He was obvisoulsy talking to you since I never put that in question.

[Vekkinho]

 

Monster radar scale:

 

MiG-31

|---------------|

F-15C

|-------------|

Su-27

|----|

MiG-29A

|--|

 

 

How's that? ;)

 

Lots, and lots, and lots of stuff. Including the little fact that F-15's will block out ailerons to roll in high-AoA situations and use rudder instead.

 

The fact that the nose isn't raised up as AoA increases.

 

Automatic antenna tracking of TWS PDT (and something similar for the Russian birds, in fact)

 

IR missile tone missing from Russian birds.

 

Poor AWACS reports.

 

That's just a small sample. You'll have to do search to collate the rest ;)

 

One thing I must admit is wrong or missed is the feature of Helmet Mounted Designator in LO and FC. In RL this doesn't work just like that, You wont see a circle floating all over your canopy at high off bore angles but you'll hear a sound just like NSCode mentioned exists in Phi-0. But to be able to use "Shlem-3UM" pilot must arm onboard EOS systems (in case of a Fulcrum it's the OEPS-29 (optiko-elektronnaya pritselnaya sistema) and a KOLS-29 Infra-Red / laser-ranger and track system. I believe Flankers have same or very similar IRST. This isn't a case in LO and FC where there's no need for pressing the default "O" key before using the Shlem!

 

The other thing I find mismodelled is unability to slew HUD display on MFD on russian fighters in LO. There's just a very poor HSD (satellite like view of the theatre) that displays only forward hemisphere from current position.

[GGTharos]

THere's a lot of stuff that's mismodeled. The Schlem 'look and shoot' mode is also not there, for example.

 

I'm sure we could write a truly huge list of what's not modeled. Also I don't think the MiG ever really had a real HSD displayed there anyway, AFAIK.

[nscode]

The most mismodeled thing about Schlem is that the designator circle stays floating above the target, like some sort of padlock.

[RvETito]

IRL R-60 and R-73 always give sound warning in pilot's earphones when the seeker is tracking a target, in LO we have that modeled only for Phi0 mode. The AIM-9 though 'screams' as it shohld in all modes.

[UWBuRn]

Imagine you play on Hyperlobby and on red side there are 14 MiG-29A and on blue side are 100 F-15's ...

Funny, in LOMAC the MIG-29A's would be racking up the kills. Sounds like something isn't terribly well simulated.

 

Maybe if you're at the F-15 stick, GG, yes. :D

 

C'mon, there are things mismodeled in Lock On, but not to this extent. ;)

 

Anyway, another thread hijacked by fanboys. :music_whistling:

[concrete]

Nah...no need for Growl when there's Natasha's sweet voice telling you Pusk Razryeshon!

mmmmm....

.....natasha :cheer3nc: :wub:

[GGTharos]

Yes, they are. All you need is a good pilot in the MiG-29A in LO; I guess you've just never run into such situations 'cause hey ... who flies 29A's in Lo anyway, right? ;)

 

C'mon, there are things mismodeled in Lock On, but not to this extent. ;)