Field Landing Technique for F-14A

[Wizard_03]

So I'm having some trouble with this one. On approach I can't seem to stay on a stabilized Glide slope. I can't find the right Pitch angle to Keep my sink rate under control while staying on speed.

 

Every time I adjust power the nose wobbles around, and I seem too over compensate and end up Fast no matter how deft I handle her. So I chop the throttles and the nose wants to run away again, I can stay on speed but I end up dropping like a pancake. And when there's a wind Its feels like I'm trying to land a kite, very floaty and I can't get down quick enough.

 

Does anyone have any pointers? Am I just not staying ahead of it or just not being aggressive enough with the stick?

[Skysurfer]

Full airbrake, on speed, engage DLC, trim it out to on speed, set a good power value and use DLC to control your glideslope and aiming point.

 

 

[Wizard_03]

Ok that helps yeah I definitely do not use DLC as much as they do. I got in the habit of not relying on it around the boat and only using bang bang corrections in close. But that was in the 14B. 

 

And it looks like they are using the stick about as much as I do based on the stab movement. 

 

I guess I have a few questions how much are the throttles moving? Because for me on speed has me slamming them back and forth quite a bit, is there a sweet spot I'm missing? And what visual ques do ya'll use for the aim point? I don't trust the VV on the HUD. 

 

[Biggus]

I certainly use DLC more on the A than the B.

 

I use a smaller range of throttle at far lower fuel flows I do in the B.  I haven't found a sweet spot and I suspect that environmental factors like gusting winds probably make a set-and-forget throttle position impossible IRL.

 

As for visuals, I do like to have the needles on the VDI to get me in the ballpark.  I also raise my head position so I can see the yaw string.  Then it's just lineup, AoA and meatball.

[Skysurfer]

Technically you use both, DLC and throttle for descent rat. It just takes practice and getting the hang of things.

[Wizard_03]

9 hours ago, Biggus said:

I certainly use DLC more on the A than the B.

 

I use a smaller range of throttle at far lower fuel flows I do in the B.  I haven't found a sweet spot and I suspect that environmental factors like gusting winds probably make a set-and-forget throttle position impossible IRL.

 

As for visuals, I do like to have the needles on the VDI to get me in the ballpark.  I also raise my head position so I can see the yaw string.  Then it's just lineup, AoA and meatball.

I'm talking daytime airfield landings what do you use to visualize glide slope? 

[Skysurfer]

1 hour ago, Wizard_03 said:

I'm talking daytime airfield landings what do you use to visualize glide slope? 

 

Sight picture, VV on the treshhold and simply that "pilot shit".

[Biggus]

1 hour ago, Wizard_03 said:

I'm talking daytime airfield landings what do you use to visualize glide slope? 

 

Same way you'd do it in a Cessna or a Hercules.  You want to descend 300ft per nautical mile from the threshold.  Or take your ground speed, halve it and add a zero, and that's roughly your descent rate for a 3 degree GS.  Get an idea of what "right" looks like, so you can spend more time looking out the window than down at the altimeter or VSI.  Wind and traffic require more attention.

 

Edit because I've reread the original post and I'm not sure that I've been terribly helpful to you so far, so I'm going to give you a suggestion that might help you find that sweet spot for not falling out of the sky or ballooning into space.

 

Set yourself up a mission with an empty plane and say half a load of fuel at 5000ft, 25nm away from and directly lined up with a runway at 250kn.  When you load in, do what you need to do to get on-speed.  Brakes out, gear down, flaps down at 200kn, DLC.  Trim it to be close to hands off.  Nose will probably be around 10-12 degree above the horizon.  You want to be in this state at around 17nm to intercept the G/S.  But you've got enough height and distance that you can experiment with finding the right range of throttle to use.  It'll give you more of a feel.  Hopefully this helps.

Edited December 5, 2020 by Biggus
A suggestion

[Wizard_03]

Ok thanks for responses I’ll give it some more practice.

[Top Jockey]

On 12/4/2020 at 11:55 PM, Wizard_03 said:

So I'm having some trouble with this one. On approach I can't seem to stay on a stabilized Glide slope. I can't find the right Pitch angle to Keep my sink rate under control while staying on speed.

 

Every time I adjust power the nose wobbles around, and I seem too over compensate and end up Fast no matter how deft I handle her. So I chop the throttles and the nose wants to run away again, I can stay on speed but I end up dropping like a pancake. And when there's a wind Its feels like I'm trying to land a kite, very floaty and I can't get down quick enough.

 

Does anyone have any pointers? Am I just not staying ahead of it or just not being aggressive enough with the stick?

 

Tipically I'll use:

 

- a 6 to 8 degrees pitch angle when landing (either in Carrier or Airbase);

- small and few adjustments on the throttle;

- point the flight path marker (velocity vector), to the beggining of the runway (or to the end if landing at the Carrier).

 

Edited December 6, 2020 by Top Jockey

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

I'm struggling with landing the -A as well. With the -B I hardly ever use DLC, but I'll indeed have to get used to using it more often. With the -A, the nose goes too far up, too far down, too far up, ... 

Edited December 6, 2020 by Elysian Angel

[Top Jockey]

14 minutes ago, Elysian Angel said:

I'm struggling with landing the -A as well. With the -B I hardly ever use DLC, but I'll indeed have to get used to using it more often. With the -A, the nose goes too far up, too far down, too far up, ... 

 

Most probably because of the TF-30 engine's significantly delayed response time, and therefore you are over-correcting throttle input...

Edited December 6, 2020 by Top Jockey

[Top Jockey]

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

43 minutes ago, Top Jockey said:

 

Most probably because of the TF-30 engine's significantly delayed response time, and therefore you are over-correcting throttle input...

Indeed, and for that very reason I’m also struggling with IFR. We’ll get used to it

[IronMike]

Was it you who I shared the landing tutorial with? The principle is just the same, only that you need to be much more thinking ahead with your throttle inputs.

[Wildwind]

No, that was me.  I haven't started with the A yet, as I don't feel I've quite mastered the B.

 

My biggest challenge right now is flying the pattern correctly.  In the training missions with the gates, i can do it just fine, but without that visual reference I get out of shape (usually in terms of gaining or losing altitude without realizing it) quickly.

 

I really need to spend a lot of time working on low-speed fine control (and on my overall awareness) in general, not just in the landing context (though, landing is about the only time I ever get that slow).  Flying fast is easy, but flying slow is hard.  I've been trying to work out a good way to practice those skills besides just flying the pattern over and over again.

 

I think where I am really suffering is in the basic skills that all real pilots learn from their instructors before they ever fly solo - things like making level turns.  But I'm not sure how to go about learning those skills in a sim.

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

2 hours ago, Wildwind said:

Flying fast is easy, but flying slow is hard.

Yup, same with motorcycles for example: on my very first day on something larger than 125cc, my instructor had me do slow speed manoeuvres. I obviously didn't have fine control yet over the bike - a Suzuki V-Strom - so it tipped over, landed on my leg and crushed my right foot. It took me 7 months of recovery before I could step on a motorcycle again...

 

2 hours ago, Wildwind said:

I think where I am really suffering is in the basic skills that all real pilots learn from their instructors before they ever fly solo - things like making level turns.  But I'm not sure how to go about learning those skills in a sim.

I'm sure there are training videos like that sporting Cessna's all over YT. I think the basic principles still apply, and in the Tomcat you have a nice slip-indicator right in front of you to aid you as well

[Wildwind]

1 minute ago, Elysian Angel said:

Yup, same with motorcycles for example: on my very first day on something larger than 125cc, my instructor had me do slow speed manoeuvres. I obviously didn't have fine control yet over the bike - a Suzuki V-Strom - so it tipped over, landed on my leg and crushed my right foot. It took me 7 months of recovery before I could step on a motorcycle again...

 

I'm sure there are training videos like that sporting Cessna's all over YT. I think the basic principles still apply, and in the Tomcat you have a nice slip-indicator right in front of you to aid you as well

 

Yeah, I ride motorcycles, too ('87 Kawasaki Vulcan 88, was my grandfather's before he passed away.  Love that bike, even if it's down with clutch problems at the moment. ).  Since my grandfather rode, and my dad still rides, I got good advice and took the Motorcycle Safety Course, and I'm so glad I did; slow-speed riding was one of the many things covered.  I had the additional bonus of it raining on Day 2 of the class, so I got to learn a lot of things in adverse conditions (which made it harder, but at the same time means I was better prepared for riding in those conditions in the future).

 

Yeah, what I really need to do, I think, is find (or develop) some kind of practice exercises for precision low-speed flight.  That's how I learned to go slow on the bike, after all.  The tricky part is making sure I'm doing it right, practicing the right habits and not the wrong ones.  That's where having an instructor comes in handy.

 

[Victory205]

Learn from Phd's

 

https://www.av8n.com/how/#contents

 

https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/aeronautics-and-astronautics/16-687-private-pilot-ground-school-january-iap-2019/class-videos/lecture-1-introduction/

Edited December 7, 2020 by Victory205

[Wildwind]

4 hours ago, Victory205 said:

Learn from Phd's

 

https://www.av8n.com/how/#contents

 

https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/aeronautics-and-astronautics/16-687-private-pilot-ground-school-january-iap-2019/class-videos/lecture-1-introduction/

Very cool.  Thank you!

 

EDIT:  Having started reading the material at that first link now, let me say again thank you.  This is very helpful.  I understood a lot of the physics involved on a theoretical level (I actually started in college as an Aerospace Engineering major, then changed to Comp Sci (aviation and computers are my two great loves, no surprise I got into flight sim, huh?) because I was bluntly informed by my academic advisor that there were far more aerospace students than there were aerospace jobs at the time), but there is a big difference between understanding the theory and understanding the practical applications of that theory for a pilot.  I'm only 2 sections into this, out of 21, and it is already changing my perspective on how to fly an airplane!

 

I can tell already this is going to be one of those things that after I finish reading it once, I am going to find myself going back and forth between re-reading it, and jumping into the sim to practice applying what I've read.

Edited December 8, 2020 by Wildwind

[Wizard_03]

On 12/6/2020 at 3:39 PM, Top Jockey said:

 

Most probably because of the TF-30 engine's significantly delayed response time, and therefore you are over-correcting throttle input...

This was my problem, have to react to things that haven't happened yet. 

[Victory205]

6 hours ago, Wildwind said:

Very cool.  Thank you!

 

I can tell already this is going to be one of those things that after I finish reading it once, I am going to find myself going back and forth between re-reading it, and jumping into the sim to practice applying what I've read.

 

Excellent. I have a bit over 25,000 hours over the course of 42 years of flying- I'm still learning.

 

I've read that entire online book, have a shelf full of aero and flight test books, never tire of learning and always learn something when I read or attend training.

 

The MIT OCW material is a gold mine. Where else can you audit a class on Physics taught by an MIT Prof, without having to take a test, for free?

[Wildwind]

1 hour ago, Victory205 said:

 

Excellent. I have a bit over 25,000 hours over the course of 42 years of flying- I'm still learning.

 

I've read that entire online book, have a shelf full of aero and flight test books, never tire of learning and always learn something when I read or attend training.

 

The MIT OCW material is a gold mine. Where else can you audit a class on Physics taught by an MIT Prof, without having to take a test, for free?

Definitely.  I haven't done more than glance at that yet, but I definitely will.  Went for the book first because my learning style favors reading over lecture, and I thought the background from the reading would help me get more out of the lecture because of it.