Single target splitting into two on TID

[-Scrat-]

Hi,

 

On multiplayer with Jester IA, if I am in TWS auto mode with the phoenix selected, whenever I fire the missile, the target on the TID comes apart and two targets appear instead of one. (Not a formation flight). Any clue ?

 

Thx for your help.

 

Best regards

 

-Scrat-

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

Sounds like 1 is a contact detected with your own radar, and 1 is a datalink track from AWACS.

[near_blind]

2 hours ago, -Scrat- said:

whenever I fire the missile, the target on the TID comes apart and two targets appear instead of one.

 

Is there an X over one of the targets? If so it sounds like a lost track. 

 

Basically the target maneuvered in such a way that it wasn't where the radar thought it would be. The radar will normally extrapolate (guess where the target will be based on the last heading / speed it knows about) the position of the target for 8 seconds (radar sweeps) before dropping it, but because you've fired a missile something called track hold is automatically engaged, which guesses the target location for two minutes to try and give the missile a chance to find it when it goes active.

 

After the track is loss, the radar picks up the target again but generates a new track because it isn't smart enough to correlate the new contact with the old track. 

 

Depending on how divergent the estimated position is from the targets actual position, it's entirely possible this may result in the missile failing to find the target when it goes active. 

[-Scrat-]

Hi Guys,

 

Thx for your reply.

 

I have included a few pictures below to illustrate what my issue is: 

 

Image 1

 

You can see that bandits have been identified by the AWACS.

 

Image 2 

 

You can see that my radar identified the same target but slightly on the left.

 

Image 3 

 

I have a shooting solution on the closest target but not the "correct" one. It seems to be a "ghost" target.

 

I need your help because this is driving me nuts....

 

Thx for your help

 

-Scrat-

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

I have seen the exact same for a while now, but so far I haven't experienced it as a problem. I might be wrong about this, but like I said the way I look at it is that the D/L contact information is not 100% accurate because of the technology at the time...
If someone else has a more fitting explanation, I'd love to hear it.

[near_blind]

Oh, that's really simple. 

 

The contact with the square symbol on top is generated by your radar, and is where the contact actually is. The V is a datalink contact, and is provided by an AWACS or ship. They're different because your INS has drifted, and the position where your aircraft thinks it is, is not the position where it actually is. The relative position of the contact as provided by the datalink therefore, is also shifted due to the INS drift.

 

INS drift is normal and unavoidable, the pains of existing before GPS made everything easy. The longer you fly, the greater the INS drift will be, it can also be worsened by heavy G.  

 

EDIT: to be clear, those two contacts are the same aircraft.

Edited December 16, 2020 by near_blind

[Golo]

Judging from the pictures I do not see any ghost contacts there. You have D/L contact and you have radar contact (it is the correct one) with TWS priority assigned, you can launch any time now. You are over thinking it, focusing too much on D/L information. As Raven and near_blind said, D/L and radar contacts rarely correlate 100%. Use D/L as a tool to guide radar search and once you get radar hit forget about D/L.

 

 

[Psyph3r]

They beat me to it, but I'd like to reiterate and perhaps make sure some things are clear  Your personal contacts will show their symbolism towards the top of the aircraft location, i.e. half square/triangle, etc..  The data-link contacts show flipped symbolism towards the bottom of where the contact is, i.e. upside down half square/triangle, etc..  Your Aircraft's target and the Data-Link's targets may differ in symbolism.  This is fine.  Even if the data-link shows someone as hostile (upside down arrow/triangle), you'll still have to identify and lock your aircraft's own target.

 

For others that may see this thread and not know:

 

-A half-square or tipped bracket represents an unknown/bogie.

-A Partial triangle represents a hostile.

-A half-circle represents a friendly.

 

This is true for both your aircraft's radar and what the data-link gives out.  The symbols are just flipped for the data-link showing towards the bottom of the aircraft location.  There may be times, though rare, that you may see something like a full circle...  Congratulations!  This just means that your ins alignment may be in great shape and your seeing a friendly from both your radar and the data-link's

 

I tried to keep this fairly basic and short.  Hope this helps and if I had any major blonde moments or something (shhh, don't tell anyone) please let me know so I can correct any of the above

[Sideburns]

This situation can be due to where the targets don't correlate due to INS drift. If you have pulled a lot of G's or been flying for a while the INS can drift and this can result in AWACs reported co-ords for the target being off from your own ship INS and radar detected target. In this situation you will want the RIO to refix the INS, but afaik you can only do this with a human RIO atm, for reference on INS fixing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqQz9YrEi6A

[-Scrat-]

Thx for your help !!!

[Hawkeye91]

I've actually found in the F14B the targets NEVER correlate perfectly while they do in the F14A regardless of a good INS alignment. I'll see if I can reproduce it.