Red Flag Campaigns

[Joni]

Hi guys, I wanted to ask a question to see if I buy or not the Red Flag campaign of the Hornet.

 

I saw some videos of the player shooting down migs and stuff, so how realistic can the campaign be? How does it justify the presence of migs in the united states without causing a masive mental breakdown in the pilots?

 

I don't think they shoot live missiles and destroy real migs valued in millions of dollars in the real red flag.

 

So I was wondering if maybe the campaign is simulating a red flag simulation rather than a red flag IRL.

 

 

Thanks.

[Ziptie]

1 hour ago, Joni said:

Hi guys, I wanted to ask a question to see if I buy or not the Red Flag campaign of the Hornet.

 

I saw some videos of the player shooting down migs and stuff, so how realistic can the campaign be? How does it justify the presence of migs in the united states without causing a masive mental breakdown in the pilots?

 

I don't think they shoot live missiles and destroy real migs valued in millions of dollars in the real red flag.

 

So I was wondering if maybe the campaign is simulating a red flag simulation rather than a red flag IRL.

 

 

Thanks.

 

 

I thought it was a fun one.  You are correct, they do not fire live missiles at each other IRL.  Not to say that during some training missions, live munitions are not employed - but not at each other.  Radio traffic is very immersive as well.  I feel like the Red Flag mission I have for the Hornet and the Viper are only a single mission, not a campaign - so we might be talking about different ones here...

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

[Joni]

2 minutes ago, Ziptie said:

 

 

I thought it was a fun one.  You are correct, they do not fire live missiles at each other IRL.  Not to say that during some training missions, live munitions are not employed - but not at each other.  Radio traffic is very immersive as well.  I feel like the Red Flag mission I have for the Hornet and the Viper are only a single mission, not a campaign - so we might be talking about different ones here...

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

 

Hey!

 

I was talking in general, like what is the nature of a red flag campaign in DCS? Do they try to replicate real life feelings like other campaigns? Or just fire missiles and the middle of the nevada dessert without a reason?

[Ziptie]

1 minute ago, Joni said:

 

Hey!

 

I was talking in general, like what is the nature of a red flag campaign in DCS? Do they try to replicate real life feelings like other campaigns? Or just fire missiles and the middle of the nevada dessert without a reason?

 

They try to replicate RL Red Flag missions, yes.  Targets, coordination, etc etc etc.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

[Joni]

Just now, Ziptie said:

 

They try to replicate RL Red Flag missions, yes.  Targets, coordination, etc etc etc.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

 

Well, I just saw this video and I would not feel very immersed killing a friendly with real guns, seeing him blown up from the sky, die, and return to base like nothing happened.

 

I guess I got my answer

 

 

 

 

[Ziptie]

1 minute ago, Joni said:

 

Well, I just saw this video and I would not feel very immersed killing a friendly with real guns, seeing him blown up from the sky, die, and return to base like nothing happened.

 

I guess I got my answer

 

 

 

 

 

Ah yes, this campaign.  I do have this one - got 4 or 5 missions into and was exceptionally bored.  Same flight plan on ingress and egress - got very boring very quickly.  Yes, you use live weapons in this campaign (like the single mission red flag events).

The only campaign I know of that uses the training missiles is Raven One (which is an exceptionally good campaign in my opinion).  That being said, you have to press the spacebar after "scoring" a kill with the training weapon(s).  Probably the only way it can be simulated (currently) in DCS - is to have a trigger action and then confirm it with spacebar - or to fire a live weapon at an aircraft to get the kill (how missions are deemed successful or not in the score calculator in mission editor).

 

If you don't have the Raven One campaign, it's definitely worth getting and there are a few scenarios where you get to use training aim9 and guns (in sim mode for the guns).

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

[Joni]

7 minutes ago, Ziptie said:

 

Ah yes, this campaign.  I do have this one - got 4 or 5 missions into and was exceptionally bored.  Same flight plan on ingress and egress - got very boring very quickly.  Yes, you use live weapons in this campaign (like the single mission red flag events).

The only campaign I know of that uses the training missiles is Raven One (which is an exceptionally good campaign in my opinion).  That being said, you have to press the spacebar after "scoring" a kill with the training weapon(s).  Probably the only way it can be simulated (currently) in DCS - is to have a trigger action and then confirm it with spacebar - or to fire a live weapon at an aircraft to get the kill (how missions are deemed successful or not in the score calculator in mission editor).

 

If you don't have the Raven One campaign, it's definitely worth getting and there are a few scenarios where you get to use training aim9 and guns (in sim mode for the guns).

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

 

Roger. Thanks. Yes I do have the Raven One and still haven't played with it. No wonder why it is so good coming from Baltic Dragon, a genius in making missions.

 

I have to admit to be extremely dissapointed to see that the Red Flag campaign and missions in general for the modules that have these, do not intent to immerse you into the real thing. 

 

I mean, I would be so immersed with comms, procedures, etc., but as soon as I assasin a friendly and no one says anything all the immersion goes to hell.

 

Maybe it's just me.

[Ziptie]

5 minutes ago, Joni said:

 

Roger. Thanks. Yes I do have the Raven One and still haven't played with it. No wonder why it is so good coming from Baltic Dragon, a genius in making missions.

 

I have to admit to be extremely dissapointed to see that the Red Flag campaign and missions in general for the modules that have these, do not intent to immerse you into the real thing. 

 

I mean, I would be so immersed with comms, procedures, etc., but as soon as I assasin a friendly and no one says anything all the immersion goes to hell.

 

Maybe it's just me.

 

The comms in the Red Flag campaign really weren't that great in my opinion either.

Check this one for the Hornet (there is also one for the Viper) and I think for the A10C as well......  Worth a flight, considering it/they are free - @Sedlo does great work as well:

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3300770/

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

Edited December 16, 2020 by Ziptie

[Sedlo]

It's a limitation of the DCS engine... As a mission designer, you can go three ways with this... One is to launch actual weapons and blow actual stuff up.   Another way is to do what Baltic does, is have a press spacebar when you get a valid shot method.  The third way is complex, and requires either scripting or a heck of a lot of different triggers in the mission editor to make it work. 

I made a single player mission in the NTTR where the player will shoot actual missiles, but the actual missiles get destroyed before they hit the target.  Once that happens, the other plane flies off to the regeneration point.  I achieved this by using Grimes' missile script here: 

 

I have to say, it was very difficult to test and get it right for just one opposing aircraft, so making a Red Flag style mission with dozens of possible bandits would be very, very difficult.

 

Anyway, if you want to give it a shot, here is a link to the Hornet mission: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3313262/

 

[Joni]

1 minute ago, Sedlo said:

It's a limitation of the DCS engine... As a mission designer, you can go three ways with this... One is to launch actual weapons and blow actual stuff up.   Another way is to do what Baltic does, is have a press spacebar when you get a valid shot method.  The third way is complex, and requires either scripting or a heck of a lot of different triggers in the mission editor to make it work. 

I made a single player mission in the NTTR where the player will shoot actual missiles, but the actual missiles get destroyed before they hit the target.  Once that happens, the other plane flies off to the regeneration point.  I achieved this by using Grimes' missile script here: 

 

I have to say, it was very difficult to test and get it right for just one opposing aircraft, so making a Red Flag style mission with dozens of possible bandits would be very, very difficult.

 

Anyway, if you want to give it a shot, here is a link to the Hornet mission: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3313262/

 

 

 

I see.

 

Considering these are single player I would have loved to see every red flag mission or campaign done the Baltic way. Otherwise it kills my immersion big time! 

[Sedlo]

If there way a way to incorporate the full range of options of the training rounds into the simulation, I'm sure every campaign maker would do it.  But for now, we'll have to stick with what we have.

Cheers!

[Razor18]

Red Flag for Hornet is nice only for the first couple of missions, after that you will realise it is always the very same mission down to the letter, only the adversaries will be changed. So, very boring. I deleted it after the fifth mission or so... Just my 2 cents...