Has the minigun damage been nerfed in the latest openbeta ?

[Shadow KT]

As the title says.

Infantry take multiple hits to die, trucks too... it used to do more.


Or are we all just shit at shooting 

Edited December 19, 2020 by Shadow KT

[Shadow KT]

Alright, did a quick test. it takes 3x7.62 to kill an infantry man at point blank... which is ... I gues reasonable, you can debate that it might need only 2, but body armor... yadayada...

At a 1000 meters tho... different story. 1 hit from 7.62 at that range deals 10 or less percent, which seems absurd. Meaning I literally need to shoot someone with 10-15 bullets at any reasonable distance to kill them.

It might be a placebo, but I definitely feel like miniguns did more damage just recently.

7.62 Damage.trk

[hannibal]

infantry needs damage model!

[Hook47]

It has been this way for awhile now. The 7.62x51 NATO round is reliably leathal up to around 900-1100 meters (based on my rather unforunate real world experiences). Having been a real world M-134 shooter, I can tell you that if that thing hits anywhere near you at anything less than 1200 meters, it is all she wrote. Reason being is fragmentation and sheer amount of projectiles will overcome any body armor worn by the target. NATO SAPI body armor plates currently in use by the U.S. Armed forces will generally stop maybe one or two direct hits from a 7.62, but if you get tagged by the 134 your definitely getting hit more than once or twice!

Edited December 20, 2020 by Hook47

[ORCA66]

On 12/20/2020 at 7:30 AM, Hook47 said:

It has been this way for awhile now. The 7.62x51 NATO round is reliably leathal up to around 900-1100 meters (based on my rather unforunate real world experiences). Having been a real world M-134 shooter, I can tell you that if that thing hits anywhere near you at anything less than 1200 meters, it is all she wrote. Reason being is fragmentation and sheer amount of projectiles will overcome any body armor worn by the target. NATO SAPI body armor plates currently in use by the U.S. Armed forces will generally stop maybe one or two direct hits from a 7.62, but if you get tagged by the 134 your definitely getting hit more than once or twice!

 

honestly it really depends on the bullet it self 

if it was a warmag  or even the standard m80 i highly doubt it will penetrate us standard infantry body armor at 90deg 100m 

but if it was a m61 bullet it will cut thru any body armor like butter which i dont know if it is used by m-134 it is expensive and mainly used for sniper rifles 

 

non the less penetrated or not it is a freaking 7.62x51 the force left by the impact would either kill the target or he would get very fucked up bleeding internally broken bones collapsed lungs so he would be as good as dead 

[BaD CrC]

Very interesting feedback @Hook47 . Thanks for that. At BlackSharkDen we are now working on the communication flow inside the cockpit and the art  of using the M134 on the Huey thanks to this new multicrew capability.  Sure our Huey pilots are already painfully feeling the difference between the previously super human AI side gunners who could pinpoint a guy with an AK47 at night in the middle of trees and shoot him with sniper level precision, and having a real guy behind the gun... But also, and correct me if I am wrong, the M-134 fired from the side of a chopper appears to be used more as a fire suppression weapon. The problem with DCS AI infantry, beside being pretty immune to bullets, is that they are also totally fearless and keeps shooting back despite being sprayed with lead. I wish there was a way to improve that. 

[Hook47]

On 12/21/2020 at 2:08 AM, ORCA66 said:

honestly it really depends on the bullet it self 

if it was a warmag  or even the standard m80 i highly doubt it will penetrate us standard infantry body armor at 90deg 100m 

but if it was a m61 bullet it will cut thru any body armor like butter which i dont know if it is used by m-134 it is expensive and mainly used for sniper rifles 

 

non the less penetrated or not it is a freaking 7.62x51 the force left by the impact would either kill the target or he would get very fucked up bleeding internally broken bones collapsed lungs so he would be as good as dead 

 

The impact of a 7.62x51 against a SAPI plate won't kill hardly anyone... It usually won't knock anyone around either. Speaking from my own experience with a body armor hit of a 7.62x54R, you know you got hit, and it scares the $$$$ out of you, but generally the impact itself may bruise at the worst. Those plates absorb a lot of shock. 

 

The reason the body armor is a non issue where the M-134 is involved is again, sheer number of projectiles. 1 or 2 hits against a SAPI plate generally wont defeat the body armor, but we are talking hundreds in a matter of seconds (or second, really...) so the body armor quickly becomes a non issue. It's about like wearing one of those reflective PT belts the military issues while getting hit by a bus- sure it may have made the end user feel better prior to s%%% getting real, but it made no real difference. 

 

@BaD CrC Glad my 2 cents worth was of value to you, sir! The M-134 can do many roles in real life, so you could argue suppression is a very real effect on the target (I have literally seen enemy combatants drop their gear and run at the sight of a 134 raining hell in their approximate area) however the weapons intended purpose is soft target destruction, and it is one of the most effective intermediate caliber weapons in the entire US Militaries inventory for that role. I can tell you (again from first hand experience) that anything aside from an armored vehicle will be totally annihilated by the M-134, and even the occupants of a light armored vehicle will be having a bad day, as the 134 is wonderful at dumping hot lead at something until some of that finds a critical component and breaks it. I didn't do this personally, but I know of a guy who took down a BTR IFV with a M-134. It was mission killed after the 134 ripped its wheels and other components to oblivion. 

 

Hopefully ED will buff this weapons use against infantry, because it's anti personnel effect in the real world cannot be understated... You do not want to be on the end of this puppy, and if you are you will not be around to tell the tale!

 

Edited December 23, 2020 by Hook47

[SPAS79]

is this something that can be potentially fixed from users? I know, it's probably going to break IC and all that, but as a stop gap while ED recognizes the issue and fixes it, especially for single player, it would be nice! 

Anyway, I was playing around with the Huey yesterday when I noticed my miniguns weren't doing s$$t to enemy infantry... BUT on the other hand, I received more than one bullet in the airframe and kept flying like it was nothing so the nerf must have been on all small caliber weapons? 

[Shadow KT]

2 hours ago, SPAS79 said:

is this something that can be potentially fixed from users? I know, it's probably going to break IC and all that, but as a stop gap while ED recognizes the issue and fixes it, especially for single player, it would be nice! 

Anyway, I was playing around with the Huey yesterday when I noticed my miniguns weren't doing s$$t to enemy infantry... BUT on the other hand, I received more than one bullet in the airframe and kept flying like it was nothing so the nerf must have been on all small caliber weapons? 

 

You can most probably be able to change the weapon values in the lua files and play SP. You would have research yourself which files you have to edit.

[Hook47]

Hey fellas,

 

I have made a mod that corrects this issue for the time being. Just wanted to leave the link in case anyone was still following this topic.