request for unrealistic hud projection hud placement

[Caldera]

Duko.

 

Thanks I will give that a try.

 

I found out that I can not adjust the home view position very well with TrackIR running.  So then I have to exit the game and turn off TrackIR.  So then I have to re-enter the game adjust and set the home view position.  So then I have to exit the game and to turn on TrackIR.  So then I have to re-enter the game and for some reason the set home view position is not quite where I wanted it to be.  So then I have to rinse and repeat a few times.  So then I get annoyed.

 

As much time as I have spent trying to adjust this one thing, one would think that I would be better at it.

 

Big,

 

On 1/17/2021 at 8:07 AM, BIGNEWY said:

Hi, 

 

As we've stated several times, the HUD is quite correct and based on direct feedback and direction from A-10 operators.

 

thank you

 

I am going to assume that you are referring to the default forward looking head position.  Specifically, as soon as you turn your view around and look aft it feels like some one just tossed something into the cockpit that maybe could be a Three Musketeers candy bar but maybe it isn't.  From that position you would appear to be as is if your were flattened with the back of your head smashed against the dash as far forward as possible.  An impossible position for sure.  Again, assuming that the head position is in fact stationary within the 3d space of the cockpit and rotating on a single vertical axis.

 

How can this be?

 

When I move the head position forward or aft, from my perspective, it appears as if the HUD projection seems to be floating in space somewhere out in front of the HUD pane.  It is not stuck to the HUD pane itself.  Moving the head position also changes how well the HUD projection fits inside the pane.  It also seems to move the  HUD projection vertically in relation to the horizontal movement of the head position.  Move the head position all the way forward and the HUD appears to be projecting onto the runway and is very big.  Move the head position all the way back and the HUD projection occupies 50% or less of the HUD pane. 

 

Is this correct in what I am seeing?

 

Caldera

 

[Caldera]

Duko,

 

I have attached four files.

 

I tried your idea of editing the SnapViews file.  I pretty much figured out what the variables do.  The Head at Seat text file contains the settings for my head position.  I was wondering if you or some one else might try these settings and help me out.   There is a problem that I can not solve with the HUD. 

 

I set up this view so that the simulated pilots head is pretty close to resting close to the ejection seat were I think it should be.   I judge this by the pilots head position in pictures that I have seen (one is attached).  I also turned on the HMD to show what I considered my level line of sight to be at for that head position. 

 

From this head position the plane is even more of a dream to fly.  Visually this position is an eye opener and a game changer in my opinion.  The only problem and it is a major problem is that the HUD simply will not fit in the pane.  I can't understand or figure out why.  Even if I lower the head position or angle it downward the HUD will still not fit.

 

Will you try the settings and see if you can get the HUD to fit?  Be sure to write down all of your values first so you can put your view back as you had it.

 

Caldera

Head at Seat.txt

[Caldera]

Attached are three files.

 

So I messed with this some more, because it is bugging me.  The HUD is viewable text file is the head position settings for these pictures

 

I don't think that the problem is the head position.  I think that the problem is the HUD position and size.  So my next question, because I am very new at this.

 

Is there a way to change just the HUD position and size?  Seems like a pilot could get his crew chief to get that done for him by some how adjusting the projectorHUD is viewable.txt.

 

FWIW I generally set my TrackIR center by looking basically at the bottom center my the monitor.  This allows me to have a much better control and ease of range for vertical up view positions.  Typically most of my vertical down views only go to the level of the MFCD's.  If I need to look at farther down into the cockpit for any longer amount of time I re-center my TrackIR at the top center of my monitor.

 

Caldera

 

 

[wowbagger]

On 1/19/2021 at 7:11 AM, Caldera said:

...   I found out that I can not adjust the home view position very well with TrackIR running.  So then I have to exit the game and turn off TrackIR.  So then I have to re-enter the game adjust and set the home view position.  So then I have to exit the game and to turn on TrackIR.  So then I have to re-enter the game and for some reason the set home view position is not quite where I wanted it to be.  So then I have to rinse and repeat a few times.  So then I get annoyed...

 

 

 

Assign a key for pause/unpause Track IR (in the TrackIR software). Then just pause Track IR, adjust your view position and save it, unpause Track IR - all without ever leaving the game.

[Caldera]

Thanks Wow,

 

I don't know all the details but if I use TrackIR in pause mode, while it allows a better set, the parameters will still not be the same as if TrackIR were turned off.

 

I messed with this some more today.  Here is what I think I found out about the parameters in the SnapViews.lau file that dukovac describes above.  If you are using TrackIR (there is another section for VR and I suspect VR may be the same) this section describes how default head position will be positioned in the 3d space of the cockpit.  Additionally, how the game will treat all your views.   Let me explain.

 

While in the game if you save your custom head position (default LALT 0) the game will grab the values right at that moment and then save them into this section of the file SnapViews.lau.  It can look pretty weird.  Below is an example of weird with TrackIR running.

 

[13] = {--default view
        viewAngle        = 80.000000,--FOV
        hAngle            = -46.895565,
        vAngle            = -59.387207,
        x_trans            = 0.325787,
        y_trans            = -0.066784,
        z_trans            = -0.022453,
        rollAngle        = 7.404784,
        cockpit_version    = 1,

 

Below is my current configuration that I found to be the my personal best compromise.  At least for today...

 

[13] = {--default view
        viewAngle             = 80.000000,--FOV
        hAngle                  = 0.000000,
        vAngle                  = -5.000000,
        x_trans                 = 0.250000,
        y_trans                 = -0.060000,
        z_trans                 = 0.000000,
        rollAngle               = 0.000000,
        cockpit_version    = 1,

 

Let me describe, in my best estimate of what the parameters do.   Notice the large number of decimal places.  That is kind of weird.  This means that these numbers were intended to be used for a high degree of mathematical accuracy.  I considered it this way.  These values will modify an actual default setting that the game uses as a standard.  Some will be multiplied to the standard number (factor) and some will be added or subtracted (bias)  The parameters that have angle in the variable name will be a bias.  The numbers with a trans in the variable name with be factors.  Basically, the angles can be whole numbers and the trans have to be fractions.

 

It doesn't matter what number you throw in.  The game it seems will not allow the head position to be outside the space of the 3d cockpit.  But...  It will allow some weird things inside of that cockpit space.  I got a taste of it while trying to set my default head position while running TrackIR.

 

 viewAngle  I am not exactly sure, but as far as I can figure out this is the zoom value.  If I have TrackIR turned off and then I set a new head position the game will save that zoom value.   For example, zoomed all the way out the value would be 140.  A lower number is a higher zoom.  If TrackIR is running then the game will always save a value of 80 to viewAngle. 

hAngle  Head rotation left or right  - left  + right  0 center                This is looking left, right or center

vAngle  Head rotation up or down  - down  + up  0 eyes level          This is looking up, down or eyes level

x_trans  Head position forward or aft  - aft  + forward                       A value of -0.050000 is the head resting against the ejection seat but I can't read the HUD

y_trans  Head position up or down  - down  + up

z_trans  Head position left or right  - left  + right                                Normally a zero I would think

rollAngle Head tilt left or right  - right  + left                                       Normally a zero I would think

 

A few more things:

• vAngle  This can be significant as it also sets the view angle of the HMD.  If I have a number outside the range of +-10 the HMD cross hair can be hard to deal with in TrackIR.
• The %_trans parameters are very important if you are trying to get the HUD to be more viewable.
• rollAngle  If you need comic relief set this value to 180 for some fun.  You should add this to your Bucket List!

My apologies for the long post I hope this helps someone.

 

Caldera

 

 

Edited January 22, 2021 by Caldera

[Caldera]

This game is mature and I have not played long so forgive if this is re-gurged information.

 

So...  dukovac got me to thinking. 

 

I searched the good ole internet some more (from some reason the search on the ED forums is much more limited).  I found some threads guess where?  On the ED forums.  There is another lua file effecting the HUD directly.  The first person that I noticed posted retracted his opinion (he was editing TFOV).  Because as it turned out his method failed to reproduce for another player. There was also a very good thread started by randomTotem.   This thread described the current HUD was more or less set up for optimal viewing if player was using VR.

 

This is the file:   %%%/DCS/MODS/aircraft/A-10X_2/Cockpit/scripts/device/HUD_param.lua

 

This is lines 6-11 of the default file:

TFOV    = 170
ZSL     = 158.64068
PDAngle = 28.0
StandByT= 0.1    
tau_1 = 0.1
T = 0.1

 

The only effects that I identified were TFOV and ZSL.  The TFOV variable basically sets the width of the HUD text.  Increasing this number had no effect, but decreasing did.  I found that if I decreased it past about 140 then the sides the HUD test would be clipped.  As I lowered TFOV the visible strip of HUD text down the center of the HUD got thinner and thinner with more and more clipping.

 

The variable ZSL though showed allot of promise.  The default is 158.64068.  That is allot of precision.  I changed it to 160.00000 and started messing around.  Let me show you some pictures.

 

ZSL=160  Looks pretty normal

ZSL=60  Focus on the TVV

ZSL=260 Focus on the TVV

 

OK, I am going to show some more pictures later.  But first, notice that at the ZSL=160 and at ZSL=260 that the TVV position has not moved.  It is just below the building at the end of the runway.  Next notice, that the ZSL=260 HUD text is shorter.  You can see that at the ZSL=60 that the TVV has moved down.  You can't see that the text is also longer.

 

There is a transition point about when the TVV movement occurs.  I think that it is right around ZSL=160.   So so if ZSL is greater than 160 the TVV stays put and the vertical text length is less.  And if ZSL is less than 160 then the TVV moves down and the vertical text length is more.  Stuff spreads out or gets squished vertically.

 

ZSL=60 Head position adjusted

ZSL=260 Head adjusted postion

 

Notice the differences in the two pictures above.  All I did was raise or lower the head position, my head forward aft rotation is set at zero.  So you are seeing things in an eyes level perspective.  Keep in mind that these are for example and may or not be a good setting to make.  That would depend on personal preference.

 

What differences I notice:

• The visible vertical length of the HUD pane
• The HUD projector is visible or not very
• The location of the TVV
• The location of the pipper
• The visible amount of the top frame of the HUD panel
• To a lesser degree the amount of view space in the wind shield above the HUD pane

 

As for this very minute, I am thinking...  If a player prefers a head position closer to the seat, then a ZSL number of greater than 160 would be best.  If a player prefers a head position closer to the dash, then a ZSL number of less than 160 would be best.  All that may in fact be determined by the head rotation forward or aft and vertical position.

 

I also have noticed that in many of the older YouTube videos I have watched that things look a bit more like the ZSL=260 as far as the projector goes.  The projector is mostly hidden.

 

Disclaimer:

I have only tested this on the A-10C ii.  I notice that the variables in the lua file are not designated as LOCAL.  Given that YMMV...

 

Caldera

  

Edited January 26, 2021 by Caldera

[Caldera]

Some more pictures!

 

ZSL=110

ZSL=110 Head Adjusted position

 

 

ZSL=210

ZSL=210 Head adjusted position

Caldera

 

 

[Caldera]

OK....

 

All of the above looked really good for a while.  I tried a setting of ZSL=260.  There were problems.  There were two major problems.  One, was there was not a SPI marker in the HUD.  Two, the TVV was way off and made landing a real nightmare.  I am giving up on the front of trying to modify the HUD until I can figure out how to do so better.

 

Back to the default view!  So I am told this is the correct position for an actual A-10C pilots head. 

 

But, If I check six something is definitely not right.  The head position is way too far forward.

And if I try to shoot something with the big gun!  (The big airplane is my target)

I am pretty new at this game.  From what I can figure out is that the head position inside the cockpit needs to move around allot.  I use TrackIR.  Head movements of left, right, tilt, rotation up /down, up and forward are reasonably easy.  Head movements of down and back are difficult.  I have read where this is how the real A-10C pilot actually views cockpit and the HUD.  Even loosely strapped into the ejection seat quite a few of those head movements that I described would be even be harder for them than it is for me using TrackIR.

 

I have found that I enjoy my simulated flight time allot better if it doesn't feel like my head is jammed into the dash.  I prefer my head position fully aft, as though it were resting against the ejection seat.  That position offers me the greatest feeling of actual flight.  Having the head position forward to the dash offers me the feeling of having my head smashed against the dash.

 

Is it the intention that the simulated pilot must maneuver their simulated head around the inside of the simulated cockpit as constantly as they are maneuvering their simulated aircraft around the simulated skies?

 

I really have to be I missing something?

 

Caldera

 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2021 by Caldera

[fudabidu]

In order to see the full HUD you only have to lean forward a bit from the default position. There is no need to move down, which is almost impossible to do anyways.

To make this easier, go into TIR and adjust the Z-axis curve. I've set up all my TIR axes to be 'a bit floaty', so I can quickly look around canopy frames or other obstructions. It also feels a bit more natural than having your head glued in one position until you get over the initial 'dead zone'.

[Caldera]

fuda,

 

5 hours ago, fudabidu said:

In order to see the full HUD you only have to lean forward a bit from the default position.

 

Thank you! 

 

I have messed with the Z axis of TrackIR quite a bit trying to mix up a solution.  The problem that I have I guess is that I don't really like the "default" view as well as a "head at ejection seat" view.  The cockpit frame seems to "occlude" a tremendous lot of things that make flying a flight simulator really cool.  I tend to fly by instinct.  When I see the "scenery", the "horizon" then, lets just say it works better for me.

 

When I want a clear view of the cockpit instrumentation and/or MFCD's I use the keypad 0 view.  This view is set up from a some what of a forward leaning position and more importantly it is static, so I can read the instrumentation with ease.  I have often thought that a nice addition might be a view of the HUD (just the HUD) that does the same thing.

 

This is the default view

And honestly, it is great!  Where is the depressible pipper?  Where is the TVV?  They are at the end of the runway out of view.

 

This is my chosen view

And honestly, it is greater!  All I have done is move the head position back to the ejection seat and changed the viewing angle up a bit.  The collimation effect on the HUD pretty much messes it up though.  I can only see the top half or the bottom half of the HUD at any one time.  Except for the HUD, this view provides me the greatest feeling of actually flying.  Where slight movements of my head with TrackIR give wide open views of horizon and spacial awareness.   I do not find myself staring at the HUD display and flying the HUD.  I find myself staring at the scenery, the horizon and my targets.  I am looking at outside the cockpit stuff.  I feel like I am flying the aircraft with my SA in the mode "Whats going on out there?".

 

I don't know how to fix just the HUD.

 

From my desired head position, moving forward to see all of the HUD

I can do this.  From my normal seated position this position is about half way to my monitor which is about 30 inches away.  It is uncomfortable and some what unnatural to  me.  For some reason, no matter what I set the Z axis value to in TrackIR I seem to always get the same result in DCS.

 

Caldera

 

 

 

[Caldera]

DF,

 

Thank You!

 

Yes, I am getting the idea.  In fact, this thread got moved from its original posted location.

 

I researched some more dialog and I find threads going all the way back to at least 2013.  They all pretty much say the same thing, rehashed in many different ways.  I have tried every work around that I can find.  No Luck.

 

Evidently, a its not problem so it hasn't gotten a change.  I can understand that.  From what I can see the folks at ED are very talented, creative and could make a change if they desired.

 

By the same logical thought that makes the HUD fit and be viewable if you lean forward then, in effect, an adjustment to HUD projection itself should be able to accomplish the same thing.  Basically doing a similar thing, but from the reverse perspective.  I just wish that there was a way to simply adjust the HUD projection itself and have all the elements work correctly. 

 

I don't know how.  You have any ideas?

 

Caldera

Edited January 27, 2021 by Caldera

[Caldera]

Did you ever get one of those "UH WHAT?" moments? 

 

After reading about 7000 comments by players across the internet and about watching 70 youtube videos no one mentions something.  It is probably just too common of knowledge, but not for a rookie like me.

 

I am talking about the numpad 0 view mode, or whatever it is called.  Pressing the numpad 0 you get a nice view of the cockpit instrumentation panel.  Releasing it you get the default view.  But, something I never realized is that it also puts the simulation into another view mode.  At least from my testing it bypasses TrackIR mode and makes the screen static on a view that has been selected.  Which can be useful because the parameters can also be edited directly in the SnapViews.lua file, as well as very useful views that exist in the file.

 

numpad 0 view

Pretty useful view.  But like I said, the simulation has secretly been placed in another view mode.  If RCTRL numpad 0 is pressed it will stay in this mode until you press RCTRL numpad 0 again or press and release numpad 0.  Alternately, pressing and holding numpad 0 you can do the same thing.

 

The following pictures were taken while in RCTRL numpad 0 mode.

 

numpad 4

 numpad 6

 

Keep reading...

Edited January 28, 2021 by Caldera

[Caldera]

numpad 5

 

This looks like the perfect drooling on the UFC HUD view.  In my opinion, this view mode has possibilities. 

 

You can edit it.

 

The first time is always the best!

 

You can bind these views to your HOTAS, but to use them you first have to switch to numpad 0 / RCTRL numpad 0 view mode.   The HUD view is especially important.

 

The next part gets a little tricky, but well worth it.

 

In the Snapviews.lua file copy the contents of lines 343-349 to lines 293-299.  Make sure to write everything down first.  If you forget, you can refer to lines 149-155 of the A-10C config.  This re-configures the file so that the numpad 0 mode or the RCTRL numpad 0 mode (same thing) is also the HUD view.  It is no longer the cockpit instrument panel view.  Now, map the HOTAS switch of your choice to num0 or Cockpit panel view in.

 

You now have a beautiful static zoomed in HUD view, with one switch activation on your HOTAS.  A switch that you can easily turn on or off to your hearts content.  You can also edit this view to your hearts content.  For example: more or less zoom, head position, view angle etc...

 

In my case I mapped it to a switch on my x56 throttle that holds position.  If I go into attack, I flip the switch on and I get a perfect zoomed in HUD view that doesn't move with TrackIR.  If I am maneuvering the switch is off. Then I can still have the head position fully aft to the ejection seat with TrackIR fully functional. 

 

The cake and guess who gets to eat it?  It works pretty good.  Try it out.

 

Be aware, the changes get wiped if you use RALT numpad 0.    One could simply remove that keyboard bind if they wanted to prevent that.

 

Caldera

 

Edited January 28, 2021 by Caldera

[OttoPus]

You are making a mess of something very simple.

 

In VR, with the right head position (the head of the virtual pilot at the height of the hadrest and standing between the shoulders and not between the knees), the parts of the hud hidden to the right eye are visible by the left eye and vice-versa. So the full HUD is perfectly readable.

 

In 2D this cannot happen and there should be a HUD resize to allow the right head position and good HUD readability.

 

That's it.

[Caldera]

Otto,

 

Thanks! 

 

But by the above method, at least for me, things are not a mess and are far from it.  Things are quite simple and work extremely well in the game.  Basically, no different than zooming in to make an attack for the purpose of being able to see better.  As you know, that becomes totally instinctive.  The view I get is perfect, I can see 100% of the HUD 100% of the time.  It is exactly the same each time I attack.  No leaning or contorting my head what so ever.  No uncomfortable head positions that make my eyes want to pop out. 

 

I focus on hitting the target only, not squirming all around my desk. 

 

With guns I almost never miss now, because the view is so stable during the attack.  The only thing that moves is the pipper to the target.  It has an adequate level of zoom (which I can adjust) built in as well. 

 

I am not fighting with TrackIR to keep the view stable during a precision attack.

 

If you haven't, you should try it out.  It is a better and much more effective option in my opinion.  I am pretty excited about this discovery.

 

I do agree that there should be a HUD resize feature.  For at least the last eight years, this has been a no go.  I suspect that ED is compelled to believe that things are working as intended.  This thread got moved to wishlist with a tag attached "correct as is".  I don't actually know what that means.  But...

 

I did forget to mention one thing I believe however.  For the method that I describe above you have to have User Snap-View Saving checked in the MISC. tab.  This forces the game to look at the Saved Games SnapViews.lua file.  Otherwise, you get the default views.

 

I wanted my cockpit instrument panel view back.  So I re-configured the SnapViews.lua file so that numpad 5, the old HUD view settings, would be my cockpit instrument panel view.  If anyone else is interested, copy lines 149-155 to lines 343-349.  The HUD view will be numpad 0 and numpad 5 with be the cockpit instrument panel view.  Both views will work great, except the HUD view is accessible with a single HOTAS switch activation.  That makes it allot easier to use.

 

Caldera

Edited January 28, 2021 by Caldera