phantom0gritz Posted January 22, 2021 Posted January 22, 2021 Hello ED, I am only writing this as a wish list for things to break on the knew AH-64D. I worked as a 15Y for 15yrs which means I as a repair and maintainer on the weapons, avionics, and electrical systems. So this module is very near and dear to my heart. Some if not all of these things would most likely be a pain(sleep depriving nightmare) to code but would make the aircraft much more fun (for me at least). -Having the redundancy systems kick on after certain amounts of damage. Specifically the display systems. Your Army liaison should be able to tell you if you don't already know. - Be able to break the gun by short changing the bursts. Its actually the ammo handling that breaks but the end result is that the gun doesn't work anymore. If the ammo handling system isn't allowed to spool all the way up and down during gun bursts the system will eventually if not right then and there snap the carriers apart. Thus depriving the gun of it's ammo. -ROBI tanks vs flat packs. Making the use of the Robinson Auxiliary Fuel/Ammo Combo pack and the 1200 round flat pack a load out option would be awesome. - I didn't see a CMWS panel in the photos so I was wondering if we are simply getting an early model or none at all. Best of wishes with the project and can't wait to fly it. 6 4
joelsi Posted January 22, 2021 Posted January 22, 2021 Considering that the Army manual doesn't mention the CMWS equipment I'd say that the DCS Apache won't get it
ED Team Raptor9 Posted January 22, 2021 ED Team Posted January 22, 2021 The AH-64D they are making is a Block 2 with 2002-era avionics. And seeing as how the -64 ASE systems are classified and DCS doesnt incorporate an advanced EW environment or detailed defensive systems, any incorporation of such systems will be rudimentary at most. Afterburners are for wussies...hang around the battlefield and dodge tracers like a man. DCS Rotor-Head
NeedzWD40 Posted January 22, 2021 Posted January 22, 2021 37 minutes ago, Raptor9 said: The AH-64D they are making is a Block 2 with 2002-era avionics. And seeing as how the -64 ASE systems are classified and DCS doesnt incorporate an advanced EW environment or detailed defensive systems, any incorporation of such systems will be rudimentary at most. We have MWS/MLWS systems on several aircraft. CMWS on the Block II isn't rocket science. It's not super secret squirrel EW warfare stuff, it's just a cluster of UV sensors that basically say "hey numbnuts, I see something that looks like a missile launch (but is actually just a reflection of the sun on a window)!" Honestly, the baseline EW suite from the AH-64A is far more advanced than CMWS. The whole program is literally so old that FAS has a page on it: https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/siircm.htm That doesn't mean it's going to be a part of the module, but since DCS already has two A-10C iterations with almost identical EW capabilities to the AH-64, it's not far out of reach to figure the Apache will have the same. You can actually script a MWS/MLWS functionality into a mission right now for aircraft (or any unit, really), if one is so inclined. 1 1
ED Team Raptor9 Posted January 22, 2021 ED Team Posted January 22, 2021 (edited) The intent of my previous post above, which I probably did a poor job alluding to, was to point out that since the EW environment in DCS itself is rudimentary, there is no point in dithering over how accurately a specific defensive system might end up being modelled, seeing as how any in-depth discussions that approach classified details would be a waste of time anyway. Edited January 22, 2021 by Raptor9 Afterburners are for wussies...hang around the battlefield and dodge tracers like a man. DCS Rotor-Head
phantom0gritz Posted January 23, 2021 Author Posted January 23, 2021 34 minutes ago, Raptor9 said: The intent of my previous post above, which I probably did a poor job alluding to, was to point out that since the EW environment in DCS itself is rudimentary, there is no point in dithering over how accurately a specific defensive system might end up being modelled, seeing as how any in-depth discussions that approach classified details would be a waste of time anyway. The early iteration CMWS systems, which are what we would find on this block of aircraft, aren't classified as far as their operational capabilities go. But that wasn't really why I was asking. It more because of what you mentioned about the EWAR state of DCS as a whole. I was just wondering if it would be was going to be there or not. The LWR/RWR systems are probably plenty for the current state of DCS. I just added it as a bit of curiosity. 2
ED Team Raptor9 Posted January 23, 2021 ED Team Posted January 23, 2021 (edited) 47 minutes ago, phantom0gritz said: The early iteration CMWS systems, which are what we would find on this block of aircraft, aren't classified as far as their operational capabilities go. General characteristics of the system, as a missile warning system, sensor placement, etc, can obviously be googled. Regarding it's operational capabilities to detect threats, which threats, and it's ability to defeat them, these details are absolutely classified. This goes for any generation or version of the system. Edited January 23, 2021 by Raptor9 Afterburners are for wussies...hang around the battlefield and dodge tracers like a man. DCS Rotor-Head
phantom0gritz Posted January 23, 2021 Author Posted January 23, 2021 Raptor9 you are right I, misspoke. I thought that the early capabilities had been de-classified with the latest iterations having much better capabilities put it was mistaken, so thanks for the correction. 1
FalcoGer Posted October 28, 2021 Posted October 28, 2021 (edited) On 1/22/2021 at 8:56 PM, phantom0gritz said: short changing the bursts What's that? Do you mean to say the ammo belt breaks if you stop a burst midway through? On 1/23/2021 at 12:24 AM, Raptor9 said: point out that since the EW environment in DCS itself is rudimentary, there is no point in dithering over how accurately a specific defensive system might end up being modelled I disagree. Everything should be modeled as faithful as data that is available. Whatever is classified should be modeled to the point of information that is available, for example how something looks on the screen or what the end result is rather than the detailed physical description of how it works. If the poor state of EW in DCS is anything, it's an appeal to the devs to step it up and finally get things implemented properly. If you take Mode 4 IFF for example, it's classified, sure. But we still know how it works in principle and what it looks like on the MFD/HUD/ and Audio/Light/Warning on the receiving end for mismatch keys, etc. In effect you have an encrypted communication between two aircraft via radio. There are 2 encryption keys to choose from, A and B, preloaded into the aircraft, each of which is valid for 24h, switching occurs at midnight. Both keys are sent/received for a short overlap duration. If the keys match, then the second aircraft will respond, otherwise it will not. If the response is missing it will show unknown, otherwise friend. Mode 1-3 will also show bad for a wrong response, because it's not encrypted. All of that is public knowledge. There is no need to know the protocol exactly. A reasonable estimation can be derived from that. In fact I don't even know why this is classified to begin with. Security by obscurity has never been a valid approach anyway, you'd be much better off using a well known standard for radio encryption. Either way the point is there is no need to know the protocol, radio frequencies involved, encryption key lengths or anything. All of that would just be wasted processor power anyway. The rest should be filled in with reasonable estimations. Besides I don't think that CMWS is so complicated that you can't come up with a reasonable estimation by using the non classified data that is available. Edited October 28, 2021 by FalcoGer
Rick50 Posted February 20, 2022 Posted February 20, 2022 On 10/28/2021 at 4:01 AM, FalcoGer said: What's that? Do you mean to say the ammo belt breaks if you stop a burst midway through? Hmm... I do think that's what he meant. I dont' think he means it breaks all the time, but that sometimes if you stop mid-burst it might damage or break. I mean, things break. And get designed for a specific use, and when you deviate from the original test parameters, shiz happen I guess! 1
frostycab Posted February 20, 2022 Posted February 20, 2022 On 10/28/2021 at 11:01 AM, FalcoGer said: What's that? Do you mean to say the ammo belt breaks if you stop a burst midway through? Total layman here, but in my mind the idea is to let the gun fire a burst at least as long as the shortest selectable burst length, rather than trying to pop off just a couple of rounds at a time. I would *guess* that the belt feed system exerts a significant yank on the belt when it starts moving, and if a short section of the belt is subjected to too many of these yanks then there would be the possibility of a break. By letting the belt cycle through a certain length before undergoing these forces again it would mean that the next yank is applied to a previously unstressed length of the belt. Am I remotely close, anyone?
Rick50 Posted February 20, 2022 Posted February 20, 2022 I've no idea, but sounds plausible? I agree the links probably have a fair amount of stress on them.
Rick50 Posted March 22, 2022 Posted March 22, 2022 So you have an electric motor pulling a huge, very long belt of 30mm. That's a LOT of weight. That's a LOT of contact surfaces each with it's own friction points. And all that weight, once moving in the flat pack, has inertia, probably a fair amount of it. I wonder if the motor controller has mulitple power levels when spinning up and spinning down? To reduce the strain on the belt links, not just as it pulls it to speed, but also maybe to prevent all the rounds that are now moving fast, suddenly all the rounds behind, smash into the rounds up front... I'll bet that causes strain on the link connection, and since they are bashing into each other, might bunch up close and possibly cause even more friction for the next burst. This might not be an issue with the Robbie tanks and just 300 rounds, but I'll bet it's a BIG deal with 600 to 1200 rounds, those are big heavy rounds, and lots of them.
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