ThunderChief Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 (edited) What are the major diffrences between Ka-50 and Mi-24 (the type that will/might be featured in DCS)? Which systems (avionics/weapons etc.) are more complex and what impact will that have on gameplay (besides 2-man crew and troop transport)? Thanks! Edited July 14, 2008 by ThunderChief
Stratos Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 This need a looooong response, sorry but no time now, anyway anyone know If we will be able to drop/recover troops with the Hind? I don't understand anything in russian except Davai Davai!
GGTharos Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 The Ka-50 is probably slightly less stable in yaw; it has more powerful engines and in general the coaxial rotor produces more lift. It is obviously a one-man chopper, the Ka-50, and it can't carry troops. I can't comment on avionics too much, but it appears the Ka-50 is quite a bit more automated and complex than older versions of the Mi-24. The Ka-50 is also better armored. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
badaboom Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 I believe newer versions of the Mi-24 have RWR installed, during Russian/Afghan war due to heavy losses from Rebels equipted with Stinger missiles. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
ThunderChief Posted July 14, 2008 Author Posted July 14, 2008 Is there anything compareable to Shkval or ABRIS or is it closer to Su-25 techology?
GGTharos Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 RWR is not effective or even useful against stinger missiles. Mi-24's had flare launchers installed to cope with those. And yes, there is something like Shkval, but I don't know the details. ABRIS is an 'after-market' add-on. More modern versions of the Mi_24, or upgraded versions may also carry something similar. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
DarkWanderer Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 And yes, there is something like Shkval, but I don't know the details. http://www.uomz.ru/index.php?page=products&pid=100072 Doesn't support Vikhr's raster guidance, but is compatible with Ataka/Sturm. You want the best? Here i am...
DaWu Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 isnt the ka-50 black shark also called - Hokum? Or am I missing something?
GGTharos Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 Thanks :) What about older versions? http://www.uomz.ru/index.php?page=products&pid=100072 Doesn't support Vikhr's raster guidance, but is compatible with Ataka/Sturm. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
sobek Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 isnt the ka-50 black shark also called - Hokum? Or am I missing something? Thats the NATO designation. Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives!
Avimimus Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 (edited) http://www.uomz.ru/index.php?page=products&pid=100072 Doesn't support Vikhr's raster guidance, but is compatible with Ataka/Sturm. There is actually a Ukrainian produced variant that can use the Vikhr. The actual Mil (Moscow Helicopter Plant) produced upgrades use the Ataka/Shturm complex. This generally believed to be due to the fact that Mil doesn't want to support the competing system (Mil backed the 9M120 for the Mi-28, while Kamov backed the 9A1472). The 9M114 Shturm and 9M120 Ataka are radio command guided SACLOS so, assuming that they can't be jammed, they can theoretically be fired in any conditions where you can sight the target. The 9A1472 requires adequate weather conditions for the laser's functioning. The downside of the radio command guidance is that you lose accuracy at range (has distance increases each degree encompasses a greater area and any error in the visual targeting system also encompasses a greater area). The earlier Hinds (ie. the ones in service) used a simple floating sight for the pilot and analogue displays. There is a paper map with a mechanical set of moving cross hairs to track position. I'm not sure about the gunner but I'd assume fairly primitive iron sights. I heard somewhere that the LLTV system is fixed forward looking (not sure if this is correct) and there is some kind of FLIR. Arneh has done considerable research and should be able to tell us more. Basically, a very primitive and very effective helicopter. It is also surprisingly small compared to the Apache. Edited July 14, 2008 by Avimimus
Chrjs Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 Thats the NATO designation. to be more precise, our KA-50 is called Hokum A, the two-seater KA-52 is called Hokum B! ;) i79900k @ 4,7 - Geforce RTX2080TI 11GB - 32Gbram - Win10 - TRackIr4 - Thrustmaster Warthog/Saitek Rudder
badaboom Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 RWR is not effective or even useful against stinger missiles. Mi-24's had flare launchers installed to cope with those. And yes, there is something like Shkval, but I don't know the details. ABRIS is an 'after-market' add-on. More modern versions of the Mi_24, or upgraded versions may also carry something similar. Mmm,My mistake,The article I got my info from mentions "Missle Warning System" and NOT an RWR,they do say it was to combat heat sinking stingers,here's my source... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mi-24 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
GGTharos Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 An MWS is an entirely different thing indeed :) Interesting, I have to look deeper into this because I'm quite certain that Russian hinds in afganistan did NOT equip MWS. The technology has only recently been made reliable and heli-portable, AFAIK. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Yellonet Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 Mmm,My mistake,The article I got my info from mentions "Missle Warning System" and NOT an RWR,they do say it was to combat heat sinking stingers,here's my source... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mi-24Perhaps some sort of system to detect the initial heat and light burst that accompanies the Stingers "take off"? i7-2600k@4GHz, 8GB, R9 280X 3GB, SSD, HOTAS WH, Pro Flight Combat Pedals, TIR5
Yellonet Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 An MWS is an entirely different thing indeed :) Interesting, I have to look deeper into this because I'm quite certain that Russian hinds in afganistan did NOT equip MWS. The technology has only recently been made reliable and heli-portable, AFAIK.I'm far from knowledgeable about this but from what I understand the Hinds got tore up bad initially when the Stinger was intruduced, after that they just started pumping flares like crazy preemtively, I guess thay wouldn't have needed to do so if they had an effective missile warning system. i7-2600k@4GHz, 8GB, R9 280X 3GB, SSD, HOTAS WH, Pro Flight Combat Pedals, TIR5
GGTharos Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 That isn't necessarily true. While the stinger was a flare-eater, ideally you want to have the missile decoyed before it launches when the launcher is within a couple km; at less than this distance, if the missile is already locked onto you, flares have greatly reduced capability to decoy that missile - so MWS or not, preemptive decoy use against the type of heat seeker like stinger uses is wise. (Hint: It works in LO, and it works in BS, too - quirks in LO aside) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
ThunderChief Posted July 14, 2008 Author Posted July 14, 2008 Okay so will the DCS Hind be closer to the 80's (e.g. without MWS) or an up to date version?
GGTharos Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 Definitely looks like an old-school hind pit to me. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
ThunderChief Posted July 14, 2008 Author Posted July 14, 2008 That would be cool. I once played Mi-24 HIИD and it I liked the old-shool weapon system and so on....
EvilBivol-1 Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 Although we've gotten into the habit of thinking of the Ka-50 as a "low-intensity" oriented helicopter with limited avionics compared to other contemporary systems, like the AH-64, it is still a very complex and advanced machine, especially relative to other Soviet helicopters of the 80s. The Ka-50 features a much more sophisticated avionics suite, designed to automate many functions to ease the pilot workload. This would include the various autopilot navigation modes and the Shkval targeting system, which is capable of automatically tracking the target - something the the gunner has to do manually in the Hind. The Ka-50 also features a fully functional HUD, as compared with the simpler gunsights of the Mi-24, and the helmet mounted targeting system. The latest version of the Hind to be accepted into Russian service is the Mi-24PN, which is a nigh-capable modification of the Mi-24P. Here is a photo from an Mi-24PN cockpit: http://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=17209&d=1212242800 - EB [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Nothing is easy. Everything takes much longer. The Parable of Jane's A-10 Forum Rules
Yellonet Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 Love that big fan :D i7-2600k@4GHz, 8GB, R9 280X 3GB, SSD, HOTAS WH, Pro Flight Combat Pedals, TIR5
badaboom Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 :)I don't think I could squeeze my Fat Butt in that pit!!!!!!!!!!!!:megalol::megalol: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Stratos Posted July 15, 2008 Posted July 15, 2008 Will say again :) Will be possible to drop/recover infantry squads in the DCS Hind? I don't understand anything in russian except Davai Davai!
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