[BUG] PAL locks targets >15nm

[QuiGon]

According to the manual PAL is supposed to be restricted to lock only targets up to 15nm. As you can see in the attached track it can even lock targets up to at least 25nm in DCS.

2021-01-31_F-14B_PAL_Lock_at_25nm.trk

Edited February 2, 2021 by IronMike
Falsley flagged as NO BUG, it is indeed a BUG

[Skysurfer]

It's 20nm afaik. Will depend on RCS mostly, dont think ACM modes have necessarily fixed lock ranges.

Edited February 1, 2021 by Skysurfer

[near_blind]

As Skysurfer said, PAL lock range is determined by the RCS of the target rather than any discrete range. 15NM is the range PAL can acquire the default RCS value in DCS, which happens to be that of an Su-27. Larger targets like Backfires and Transports can be acquired significantly further out. 

Edited February 1, 2021 by near_blind

[QuiGon]

7 hours ago, Skysurfer said:

It's 20nm afaik. Will depend on RCS mostly, dont think ACM modes have necessarily fixed lock ranges.

 

Really? That's odd for two reasons:

 

1) The manual says otherwise: https://www.heatblur.se/F-14Manual/general.html#pilot-automatic-lockon-pal

Quote

Pilot Automatic Lockon (PAL)

PAL is enabled by the pilot selecting DES on the target designate switch when not in A/G mode.

PAL commands the antenna to a 8-bar ±20° scan pattern locking onto the first target detected out to 15 NM. This mode is indicated by the diamond on the HUD following current antenna line of sight.

 

2) ACM modes  usually have such a range restriction not because of the inability to lock targets further out (you can lock targets much further away in manual pulse mode in the Tomcat), but because they are being used WVR, where it would be quite bad if the radar would not lock onto the bandit right in front of the aircraft, but instead choose to lock a bandit much further away.

Edited February 1, 2021 by QuiGon

[captain_dalan]

For what is worth, it's usually ships that get locked more then 15NM out.

[QuiGon]

2 hours ago, captain_dalan said:

For what is worth, it's usually ships that get locked more then 15NM out.

 

In the track file, which I posted above, it's an aircraft.

Edited February 1, 2021 by QuiGon

[near_blind]

11 hours ago, QuiGon said:

1) The manual says otherwise:

Be that as it may, PAL is RCS limited, not Range limited. PLM exists for locking up only close targets directly in front of you. 

[QuiGon]

56 minutes ago, near_blind said:

Be that as it may, PAL is RCS limited, not Range limited. PLM exists for locking up only close targets directly in front of you. 

 

I see, thanks!

 

In this case the manual needs to get updated as it currently says that PAL only locks up targets out to 15nm (see above)! @IronMike

Edited February 1, 2021 by QuiGon

[IronMike]

22 hours ago, QuiGon said:

 

I see, thanks!

 

In this case the manual needs to get updated as it currently says that PAL only locks up targets out to 15nm (see above)! @IronMike

 

 

EDIT: Please see my next comment below.

Edited February 2, 2021 by IronMike

[QuiGon]

2 minutes ago, IronMike said:

 

I think that is fine, since it is a guideline value, should maybe add rather that @Naquaii - maybe add a subsentence that it can lock targets with a larger RCS a bit further out than 15nm as well..

That would be great, as it is not clear currently, that this is just a guideline value the way it is written.

[captain_dalan]

14 hours ago, QuiGon said:

 

In the track file, which I posted above, it's an aircraft.

 

Well that's why i said usually
But yeah, sometimes other things get locked up too.

[IronMike]

Correction and apologies, gents, I was wrong, I just talked to Naquaii. PAL locking outside of 15nm is indeed a bug, the WCS "restricts" PAL to 15nm, not the RCS size, I was wrong.

I changed the title to "BUG". My apologies.

Edited February 2, 2021 by IronMike

[QuiGon]

16 hours ago, IronMike said:

Correction and apologies, gents, I was wrong, I just talked to Naquaii. PAL locking outside of 15nm is indeed a bug, the WCS "restricts" PAL to 15nm, not the RCS size, I was wrong.

I changed the title to "BUG". My apologies.

 

No worries and thanks for double checking!

I was already wondering why the engineers of the AWG-9 would depart from the fixed range restrictions found on pretty much all ACM modes across all modern fighters, as they are there to prevent you from accidentally locking up something in a dogfight that is further away and not part of the dogfight.

Edited February 3, 2021 by QuiGon