Question WIP F-16 cockpit photos by Wags

[Feuerfalke]

Or kicks his butt... :music_whistling:

 

:lol:

[Vekkinho]

Cool, whatever we get I'll be glad to finally fly a Lawndart in Lock On (or more preciselly DCS).

 

Name that DCS module correctly! Let me try!

 

DCS:Falcon5.0!

[Vekkinho]

I must admit I was a huge F-16 fan during childhood, but I always missed something from both worlds. I missed accuracy and realism in LOFC and eye candy in Falcon 4 or Open Falcon that kinda simulates Falcon's avionics and systems as close as it can!

 

So merging the two in DCS:F-16 module would make me start collecting flight hours in F-16 again!

[Pilotasso]

when F-16 DCS module is out it will finaly fill a gap thats been on PC gaming market for a decade.

[Vekkinho]

^^^^^^^^

Well said!

[SUBS17]

Cool.

 

Then it is the latest, Block 50D, I guess. Though it will be a bit boring on SEADs, with the fully automated Harm I & II and Shrike capability :smilewink: :D

 

That depends on what mode you are using I personally prefer to manually pick which search radars I'm taking out as opposed to prebriefed/auto mode. Also if you are engaging SA10s then it can make life interesting if you fly into a SAMbush or bring CBUs to finish the job.:thumbup:

[SUBS17]

That would suck for the guy in the back seat, He would have nothing to do

 

Yeah well backseats for noobs anyway Tornado or F-14 would be a different story though.

[Vekkinho]

That would suck for the guy in the back seat, He would have nothing to do

 

He can catch some zees or womit freely all over the place!

[mvsgas]

I have google and way too much time. :D

 

Basically the guy in the back supports the pilot. He can take over communications with AWACS, tower, wing, etc. but as he can also access targeting sensors and exchange the targets with the pilot, the WSO can also identify and attack a target with the FLIR and LASER, while the pilot uses the RADAR to search for airborne threats or for other targets when in ground-mode.

 

In general, it's the second brain to use the F-16s systems and an extra pair of hands and eyes in the heat of a battle.

 

Maybe in the block 52+ or the block 60 can each pilot control the weapons systems independently. Block 25 to 52, share the control of the CMFD/MFD. For example if the guys in the front cockpit has the FCR in the left CMFD/MFD, the guy in the back will show the FCR on the left and so on. The only difference is that the guy in the back can project or show the HUD view in the left CMFD without affecting the front pilot. Remember that the B or D model a primarily for training, they do have all the same systems and same dimensions(less fuel on the B/D models) Most of the time the IP pilot sits in the back and supervises what the front pilot or student is doing ( in training squadrons anyway) Maybe those feature are incorporated in the 52+/60 ( controlling the weapons systems independently in each cockpit) but AFAIK not on on the other blocks. He could do comms I guess and he can do all the targeting while front pilots flies the aircraft but both could not use the targeting systems AFAIK.

I do not believe you would need the back pilot (I would not call him/her a WSO since we don't have any in the F-16 world) to control the FLIR, the only thing it would do is project a FLIR image in the HUD and a MFD. The only way to use the FLIR to identify targets would be to go in a dive to put the target in the FLIR view area. Now the targeting pod you would have FLIR image in it and could use for targeting, target identification, lasing, laser ranging etc.

 

By the way in 11 year working the F-16, I have never heard the CJ called blk50D.

Edited July 17, 2008 by mvsgas
One of this day I will learn to spell, my momy told me so :D

[mvsgas]

He can catch some zees or womit freely all over the place!

:D Most people getting a ride do the vomiting and most IP pilots do the sleeping. I had a bus for my first aircraft (88-0155) and I got to see so many people go up in it and come back looking so sick. When ever I got one of those people in the back I alway made sure to get a bucket and cleaning supplies to make them clean their mess. Some people actually drop they barf bags, some people have done much, much,much! worst than that, thank good never in my jet.

Edited July 17, 2008 by mvsgas
I really should read my post, I can't spell to save my life

[mvsgas]

Yeah well backseats for noobs anyway Tornado or F-14 would be a different story though.

 

The IP or Instructor Pilot normally sits on the back, unless of course if they are giving someone a ride then that person sits on the back, of course. And talking about cockpits, you can also select who has the commanding side stick, front or back. So if a IP is in the back you select aft control override meaning the aft stick can override the front and vice versa. Also you have a selector for the ejection sequence. SOLO, Aft and FWD. SOLO is self explanatory, I do not know the criteria for the other two settings, or what determines how to set it.

[SUBS17]

Thats actually not a bad idea having a 2seater as well modeled since it would add more to the aircraft as an addon. Yeah I know all about IPs in the backseat but for MP I only can imagine sitting in the back if trainning a new pilot. Most people online already know the flight part of trainning. You can effectively teach new pilots from a 2nd F-16 and use that to demonstrate as well in some cases as the F-16 is such an easy aircraft to fly and use the weapons.:thumbup:

[mvsgas]

So what version would you guys prefer, A,B,C or D model, cockpit wise anyway?

I would prefer the C model myself. If the implement all the aspects like the KA-50, doing the test before flight would be a lot easier I think.

I would like to see a A model just because it has never being done, not that I know of anyway.

Correct that, there is a A model in add ons to WOV and as part of WOI, IIRC, but it has never being done in a cockpit with all working switches.

[Feuerfalke]

It's true, the F-16 two-seater rarely saw combat but IIRC you can chose whether the guy in the back can use the same HUDs or his own. I got that from a rather old book, covering F-16s until the Block25, so I didn't think that has changed. If you know better first hand, that's a nice information on this, though. :thumbup:

 

 

AFAIK the designation CJ was designed to NOT call it any block-version. So I am not surprised the block-designation is not used "in the field". :D

 

 

An F-16 modelled with the details we see in BS would really be awesome, but IMHO it only fills the gap of a decade, if the campaign-system comes close to that of Falcon4, too. :music_whistling:

[Vekkinho]

:D Most people getting a ride do the vomiting and most IP pilots do the sleeping. I had a bus for my first aircraft (88-0155) and I got to see so many people go up in it and come back looking so sick. When ever I got one of those people in the back I alway made sure to get a bucket and cleaning supplies to make them clean their mess. Some people actually drop they barf bags, some people have done much, much,much! worst than that, thank good never in my jet.

 

That's why you always use your own Oxy mask!

[Feuerfalke]

I just stumbled upon the picture on this site, while searching for a nice F-16 shot:

 

I didn't notice it on the first glance, but then I recognized the reflection of the MFDs and remembered your statement mvsgas. It's rather out of personal interest, but with your good relations to first hand information on F-16Ds, maybe you can confirm that both crewmen see the same MFD? In the picture it looks as if the left MFD of the pilot is showing something different than the MFD of the GITB. Could be the distortion, though?

[RedTiger]

Maybe one of them switched it to something else? It would kinda suck and defeat the purpose if they both had to view the same page at once. I'd imagine one guy could keep an eye on the FCR and navigation, while the other could watch another page, like the one that you use to launch HARMs (not sure what that one is called or if the D can even use HARMs).

Edited July 17, 2008 by RedTiger

[mvsgas]

I just stumbled upon the picture on this site, while searching for a nice F-16 shot:

 

I didn't notice it on the first glance, but then I recognized the reflection of the MFDs and remembered your statement mvsgas. It's rather out of personal interest, but with your good relations to first hand information on F-16Ds, maybe you can confirm that both crewmen see the same MFD? In the picture it looks as if the left MFD of the pilot is showing something different than the MFD of the GITB. Could be the distortion, though?

Several things can be seen that photo. The first thing I see is that the master caution light is on (above back seat left MFD) so something is not right, what it is I have no idea. The upper part of the reflection looks to me like the DED (data entry display) If you look between the upper part of the reflection and the lower part you can see a row of lights, those ligthts are above the right MFD. They should be the Engine/fire light, T/L CFG, Engine oil/Hyd oil lights (I think I'm forgetting one not sure) The DED is in the upper right corner of the cockpit. I don't think you would be able to see the left MFD in the front cockpit through reflection because the center pedestal would be in the way.

You can see the reflection of the right MFD and to me, it look like the same page. What page, I'm not sure, maybe the HSD (Horizontal Situation Display) page.

 

I wander what would cause the master caution light to come on. Look like all indication are normal for what I can see.

[mvsgas]

Maybe one of them switched it to something else? It would kinda suck and defeat the purpose if they both had to view the same page at once. I'd imagine one guy could keep an eye on the FCR and navigation, while the other could watch another page, like the one that you use to launch HARMs (not sure what that one is called or if the D can even use HARMs).

 

I'm no pilot RedTiger, but that is the way I think it works. The thing is the computer projects the same image to both MFD/CMFD. And don't think you would be able to use different systems like that. I don't think it would defeat the porpoise since the porpoise of the B and D model is training, not strike mission like the F-15E and I assume is rather important for a IP to know if the student pilot can use his systems correctly. Also remember I don't know if it work this way in the 52+ or block 60 and I don't know if it works this way in other countries. I can only speak of my experience, that does not make me an expert, just means I have some knowledge of the systems. By all means man, I believe you should not thrust anything you read until you find three or four different sources saying the same thing. Lets all go to our favorite search engine and lets see what we find :D. We can only benefit from other people knowledge, and I'm not the best source of knowledge on the F-16, I'm not even a good mechanic :D. I bet we can probably find a more eloquent and more knowledge full person in F-16.net about the subject than me.

Sorry for the spam.

 

P.S.

AFAIK, the D model is equal to the same block C model. they use the same computers and same systems.

Edited July 18, 2008 by mvsgas

[mvsgas]

I just find this photos with some basic label.

http://meriweather.com/16/16-layout.html

Edited July 18, 2008 by mvsgas

[Feuerfalke]

Several things can be seen that photo. The first thing I see is that the master caution light is on (above back seat left MFD) so something is not right, what it is I have no idea. The upper part of the reflection looks to me like the DED (data entry display) If you look between the upper part of the reflection and the lower part you can see a row of lights, those ligthts are above the right MFD. They should be the Engine/fire light, T/L CFG, Engine oil/Hyd oil lights (I think I'm forgetting one not sure) The DED is in the upper right corner of the cockpit. I don't think you would be able to see the left MFD in the front cockpit through reflection because the center pedestal would be in the way.

You can see the reflection of the right MFD and to me, it look like the same page. What page, I'm not sure, maybe the HSD (Horizontal Situation Display) page.

 

I wander what would cause the master caution light to come on. Look like all indication are normal for what I can see.

 

Yes, could be the DED. The reflection is pretty much distorted.

 

I noticed the caution-light, too. It also seemed to me on first glance, that some of the instruments are not working (e.g. the artificial horizon).

 

 

I hope you can provide some information for the F-16-addon :thumbup:

[mvsgas]

http://images.google.co.kr/imgres?imgurl=http://attach.high-g.net/attachments/f-16d_b52__haf-03.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-2470.html&h=2043&w=2500&sz=851&hl=ko&start=2&um=1&tbnid=3feQA8qcG2-dBM:&tbnh=123&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3DF-16%2Bcockpit%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dko%26newwindow%3D1%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN

Looks to me that the standby ADI is still cage or lock. By pulling and rotating the nob clockwise you lock it in place, in the photo you posted you can see that nob rotated all the way to the right. I posted a picture where you can see the back cockpit pretty good, you can see the main artificial horizon or ADI in the center of the cockpit.

 

I hope you can provide some information for the F-16-add on

Thank you but I'm sure that ED has more reliable sources than some dude in the forums :D

Edited July 19, 2008 by mvsgas

[Steve Davies]

Mvgas

 

Interesting comments about the displays being linked in front and back on the Block 50/52.

 

I've flown in the back of the Block 30, Block 40 and Block 50. The Block 50 (at Spangdahlem in 2005) was the only one in which I could set my displays independently of the front seat.

[Feuerfalke]

I must confess I'm confused.

 

You mentioned F-16.net as a good site and the picture I pieced together for month of digging through there was giving me the idea that the displays work independently on modern F-16s. :dunno:

 

 

@ Steve Davies

That even more confuses me. Do I believe a pilot or a techie. LOL :doh:

 

Anyway, I feel very comfortable to see the F-16-Addon is in good hands. :thumbup:

[Steve Davies]

I am not a pilot, Feuerfalke :) I just get to ride in the back of these things every now and again.