reported AIM-120C losing targets easily for chaff even at close ranges

[Harker]

6 hours ago, GGTharos said:

The last ditch defense is not really a kinematic defeat in this case, there are other things that factor in.

Well, yes and no. The way he explained it, the main thing involved is maneuvering in a way that the missile tries to intercept you and then pulling in a way that forces the missile to try to correct very late in the terminal, while simultaneously entering the notch ever so briefly.

 

If timed well, the missile can get confused just enough for it to reacquire too late and be unable to correct enough, causing an overshoot.

 

He did not comment on whether chaff and/or ECM are involved. I'll ask when I get a chance, but given the nature of the conversation and the fact that he's in active service, I might not get any useful details that I can share.

[Cmptohocah]

11 hours ago, GGTharos said:

 

He's probably talking about the last ditch defense, which is not what that MiG-29 did, or if it did, we wouldn't know about it.  What that F-15 pilot did do is launch at that MiG-29 when it was about to notch, and it did notch - it was not a 'head on' shot, it was a 'snap down' shot.  The last ditch defense is not really a kinematic defeat in this case, there are other things that factor in.

If we are talking about two downed MiG-29As by "Claw" and his wingman, the Fulkrum pilot did not go for a notch but rather tried to evade the oncoming AMRAAMS as he saw the smoke, or should I say contrails, coming their way. 
He was "pulling" for his life and that first STT AMRAAM missed.

[deadpool]

Some general things:

 

- If you go for a notch, your ECM pod won't do you much good. It's not covering your 3/9 line. It's covering your front aspect, and maybe your rear.

 

- marking missiles would be awesome

 

- With all the desync shenaniganz going on and ED having taken over all weapons dev from all third party devs, why are missiles not simulated as little "AI" aircraft on the server? This makes it much more predictable for everyone involved and the data transfer barrier from client to server would add a proper dimension of datalink to missiles.

[dundun92]

2 hours ago, deadpool said:

If you go for a notch, your ECM pod won't do you much good. It's not covering your 3/9 line. It's covering your front aspect, and maybe your rear.

Not correct in terms of whats in DCS RN. Jammers cover you in a 360° bubble

[deadpool]

15 hours ago, dundun92 said:

Not correct in terms of whats in DCS RN. Jammers cover you in a 360° bubble

 

I can't even .. Big ouf ..

[dundun92]

Just now, deadpool said:

 

I can't even .. Big ouf ..

Ya IK, DCS EW is really that shallow

[Tippis]

Yes, but look at the bright side: all this talk about notching just comes down to momentary radial velocity <15m/s (or <10m/s for some more capable radars).  

 

This may be a slightly unorthodox use of “bright side”, but them's the breaks.

[DCS FIGHTER PILOT]

Apart from the chaff problem, is anyone seeing weird guidance bugs like missiles missing when clearly they should hit? For instance, just the other day, an AMRAAM coming in at over 1900 knots on a cold target, just outright missed. It’s almost as if the missile just gave up. Unfortunately, it was in MP and I could not get a track for it.  
 

I will try to post tracks soon showing this. I just want to know if anyone else is seeing this. Perhaps it’s chaff related perhaps not. 

Edited May 19, 2021 by DCS FIGHTER PILOT

[dundun92]

24 minutes ago, DCS FIGHTER PILOT said:

Apart from the chaff problem, is anyone seeing weird guidance bugs like missiles missing when clearly they should hit? For instance, just the other day, an AMRAAM coming in at over 1900 knots on a cold target, just outright missed. It’s almost as if the missile just gave up. Unfortunately, it was in MP and I could not get a track for it.  
 

I will try to post tracks soon showing this. I just want to know if anyone else is seeing this. Perhaps it’s chaff related perhaps not. 

 

Its the aiming error mechanic. Turns out, besides the low altitude aiming error, theres an overall error for new API missiles, the aim_sigma value, the standard deviation. Assuming a normal distribution curve, I calculated that the probability of a miss outside proxy fuze range was 3.5%. Low, but not zero. That may be what you are experiencing.

[deadpool]

On 5/11/2021 at 2:35 AM, Tippis said:

Yes, but look at the bright side: all this talk about notching just comes down to momentary radial velocity <15m/s (or <10m/s for some more capable radars).  

 

This may be a slightly unorthodox use of “bright side”, but them's the breaks.

 

I fail to see the bright side ..

 

- ECM is oversimplified and would only be acceptable for a game from before 1990

- Chaff is oversimplified and would only be acceptable for a game from before 1990

- Having the missiles be simulated on the shooter's clientside is very questionable

- Missing proximity fuses in MP is a joke

- AI immediatly knowing what and when you shot at whom is a joke

- The current "notching" logic where you pull it through once (if you're AI) or hold it in the notch for a few milliseconds and then it's trashed forever and never reaquires is quite boring and caters very much to Airquakers (imho)

 ... it feels like strafejumping in Counterstrike back in the days. Nonsensical, but it gives you one more mechanic for esports.

 

For AG the list would go on:

- Healthpoint based system would be acceptable for a game from before 1990

- Missing splash damage is a joke

- Low-update frequency of laserpoint tracking is also quite bad

Edited May 19, 2021 by deadpool