Targeting with the DMT

[netizensmith]

The display looks the same whether a target has been acquired or not. Am I missing some symbol that's letting me know? Is it a bug? Or os the real Harrier like this too?

 

In case it's relevant I'm trying to use the TPOD to zoom in on a target, SSS depress twice to give control over to the DMT on my left display, slew onto a target, SSS depress twice again to get back to the TPOD, slew around looking for a better target and then if I find nothing then Undesignate to get the TPOD back to the DMT target. The issue is that the only indication that the DMT has locked on (that I can see) is a small jitter - blink and you miss it.

[Fri13]

The ARBS/TV (and ARBS/LST) is improperly done (both are part of the DMT). The TV mode is currently a 100% ground stabilized that is unrealistic. In reality it is a contrast based where first a large target lock gate is used to find a contrast in scene and then 160 ms later the small contrast lock gate is used to lock on main contrast there is spotted.

The ARBS/TV requires some time and angle changes to calculate the slant range, that is then used for the weapons delivery (CCIP and AUTO) but it is now instant information.

 

The DMT itself locks automatically on everything on ground. The moving target tracking doesn't work as we do not have contrast lock system in place, so you need to get it precisely inside the small box in crosshair. So you don't need anything to be informed "is it locked" as it always is.

 

There are couple videos of the real ARBS/TV in use, and they are different than what we have. Example in one it is visible how the TV has locked on the target shadow instead the vehicle itself as the shadow is the strongest contrast. And you can see how the lock gate behaves in there.

Someone probably has the video URL stored to link here.

 

If you have a TPOD, then you don't need to use DMT. You still want to have it powered up as by the NATOPS manual it is stated that when it is not powered there is no dampening for gimbal and you can damage it with maneuvers (IIRC) so anyways just keep DMT turned On and then don't use it.

You should be able to use the INS mode to designate targets inside HUD TFOV, and then "sweeten" the INS Target Designation to generate more accurate TD by doing so. And then use that INS target as TPOD TD where to slave it. But that doesn't work properly either.

 

 

[netizensmith]

Thanks for the comprehensive response! However, the DMT is not always locked. It has the concept of being locked, or not. If it is locked then sss depress x 2 makes the tpod slewable and when you slew it the dmt will not move and after slewing and hitting undesignate will return good to where dmt is locked. When dmt is not locked then sss depress x 2 gives you tpod slewable but doing so will move the dmt at the same time.

Edited February 3, 2021 by netizensmith

[Cunctator]

It sounds like you are doing an INS designation and your DMT is slaved to that designation. Thus you don't get the TV/ARBS lock symbology. As said above TV/ARBS contrast locking isn't really modeled, thus you can use both ways to designate a random spot on the ground, without a proper high contrast target required, and the difference is not as obvious as it would be in the real Harrier.

[Wisky]

what you are doing is - while commendable - not really functional.

 

1. on your right MPCD have TPOD open

2. on your left MPCD have EHSD open.

 

if you find a target, lock tpod and create a targetpoint with TDC down.

now on your left screen (EHSD) press MK0.

You will create a Markpoint0 and store your first Target in this ‚bookmark‘. 

 

now you can slew to the next target and hit ‚MK1‘ (the 0 will change to a 1 as the 0 is already in use)

 

once your happy you can just click on your EHSD through your Waypoints (MK0 - MK9) while TPOD is slaved and choose which target to attack first.

 

you dont need the DMT if you have a TPOD

[netizensmith]

45 minutes ago, Wisky said:

what you are doing is - while commendable - not really functional.

 

1. on your right MPCD have TPOD open

2. on your left MPCD have EHSD open.

 

if you find a target, lock tpod and create a targetpoint with TDC down.

now on your left screen (EHSD) press MK0.

You will create a Markpoint0 and store your first Target in this ‚bookmark‘. 

 

now you can slew to the next target and hit ‚MK1‘ (the 0 will change to a 1 as the 0 is already in use)

 

once your happy you can just click on your EHSD through your Waypoints (MK0 - MK9) while TPOD is slaved and choose which target to attack first.

 

you dont need the DMT if you have a TPOD

Thankyou! It did seem rather convoluted. Problem with the Harrier is I'm never sure if it's me being an idiot or a bugged system.

[Dr Zaius]

On 2/3/2021 at 9:17 AM, netizensmith said:

Thankyou! It did seem rather convoluted. Problem with the Harrier is I'm never sure if it's me being an idiot or a bugged system.

Having a working manual would prevent this sort of thing, you need perseverance to fly this module you really do.

[eyusuf]

How would you boresight the DMT?

Edited January 6, 2023 by eyusuf

[Recluse]

On 2/3/2021 at 3:30 AM, Wisky said:

what you are doing is - while commendable - not really functional.

 

1. on your right MPCD have TPOD open

2. on your left MPCD have EHSD open.

 

if you find a target, lock tpod and create a targetpoint with TDC down.

now on your left screen (EHSD) press MK0.

You will create a Markpoint0 and store your first Target in this ‚bookmark‘. 

 

now you can slew to the next target and hit ‚MK1‘ (the 0 will change to a 1 as the 0 is already in use)

 

once your happy you can just click on your EHSD through your Waypoints (MK0 - MK9) while TPOD is slaved and choose which target to attack first.

 

you dont need the DMT if you have a TPOD

Just a question:  Is there any advantage to using Markpoints vs. hitting the TOO button to create a Target Point? That is what I usually do, though I admit that I have a hard time sometimes getting the TPOD to snap back to the selected Target Point the way I think it should. Not sure Markpoints would work any differently, but you never know!

Edited January 6, 2023 by Recluse

[unlikely_spider]

On 1/6/2023 at 1:19 PM, Recluse said:

Just a question:  Is there any advantage to using Markpoints vs. hitting the TOO button to create a Target Point? That is what I usually do, though I admit that I have a hard time sometimes getting the TPOD to snap back to the selected Target Point the way I think it should. Not sure Markpoints would work any differently, but you never know!

 

Same question. What's the difference between using the TOO button vs Markpoints?

[Recluse]

 

 

I have been playing with this and have come to these observations:  both Markpoints and TargetPoints (18 target points via ATHS, so I assume the same for TOO, which, honestly should be PLENTY), are limited in number, so it is good to have the option. IN THEORY Markpoints are more versatile (you can move them around and create offsets like Waypoints) IN PRACTICE, some of the functionality seems to be broken (e.g. Making OFFSETS).

Target points are more useful for assigning multiple targets to JDAMs in Absolute Mode, so that is one advantage of them over Markpoints.

 

 

Edited April 1, 2023 by Recluse