Let's have some fun

[Yellonet]

Tactics warm-up :D

 

Consider the beautiful map below, a convoy is following the yellow trail at about 50 kph, you and your wingman in Ka-50 are to take it out, it will consist of 2-3 APCs, several trucks and cars and possibly a Shilka, also there may be Igla/Stinger troops in the convoy. How would you do it?

 

Just save the image and draw on it to illustrate your plan :thumbup:

 

[VMFA117_Poko]

This is an example of inpatience :D

 

Tactics Warm-Up is a good idea mate. But I think we need it in bigger scale and make it on real Georgian region map. What do you think?

Edited July 23, 2008 by Poko24

[Yellonet]

This is an example of inpatience :D

Ya think? :music_whistling:

 

Tactics Warm-Up is a good idea mate. But I think we need it in bigger scale and make it on real Georgian region map. What do you think?

I just whipped this together in 10 minutes what do you expect :D

[bandera]

Such tactic plans is necessary to draw before fighting events (like LOCERF, squad vs squad and etc.)

 

My wife is saying that we all inpatients. Especially after night fights :D.

[eurofor]

I like the idea. Maybe you could copy and paste the map out of Google Earth? That's simple and fast.

[Yellonet]

I think that it may be difficult to make a screenshot from google earth and have good details while still not making the map too small. Also it can be hard to see small differences in elevation. But please, someone with that have an elevation map of georgia could perhaps create a scenario.

[nemises]

good idea mate, am interested to see the replies (both for comedy value, and for actual tactical interest)

[Legolasindar]

This is my tactic :smartass::pilotfly:

 

[Yellonet]

Blackzilla-50 ftw!

[ThunderChief]

You need tactics for this situation?

There is nothing harmfull in your convoy as long as you stand off at Vikhr range right?

 

24 Vikhr should be enough for that convoy. If not my wingman will go in for guns 8)

[Yellonet]

You need tactics for this situation?

There is nothing harmfull in your convoy as long as you stand off at Vikhr range right?

 

24 Vikhr should be enough for that convoy. If not my wingman will go in for guns 8)

Ok, throw in a couple of M1's then! Now you need to flank them or shoot them in the "back".

[ThunderChief]

That won't happen, Ka-50 is for low intensity combat ONLY. ;)

Seriously I think this is already a very complex scenario. I thought about the following

1. Order the wingman to recon OR place it somewhere out of danger so that it can see the convoy

2. Hide behind one of the small hills on the center.

3. Wait for wingman to report targets.

 

I think you would wait for ever because hiding would mean to lose radio contact to your wingman (thats what I understand).

[Yellonet]

That won't happen, Ka-50 is for low intensity combat ONLY. ;)

Seriously I think this is already a very complex scenario. I thought about the following

1. Order the wingman to recon OR place it somewhere out of danger so that it can see the convoy

2. Hide behind one of the small hills on the center.

3. Wait for wingman to report targets.

 

I think you would wait for ever because hiding would mean to lose radio contact to your wingman (thats what I understand).

Maybe you'll have to do the old "Synchronize watches!"-trick to pop up at the same time from different locations... talk about fun in coop... in-game voice coms that are run through the radio. That would be sweet :)

[britgliderpilot]

You need tactics for this situation?

There is nothing harmfull in your convoy as long as you stand off at Vikhr range right?

 

24 Vikhr should be enough for that convoy. If not my wingman will go in for guns 8)

 

Ok, throw in a couple of M1's then! Now you need to flank them or shoot them in the "back".

 

24 Vikhr would be enough. However, you only get 12 :D

 

 

If you can find somewhere where you're very nearly masked but can survey the convoy with the Shkval, it should be fairly straightforward to pick out and engage any air defences.

 

You know where the convoy is coming from and going to (it's on a road, after all), and you can lay an ambush, air defences first.

 

You'd have to take out heavy armour as well - a tank can and will fire shells at you, and heavy-calibre turret weapons will make a big mess if they hit. Standoff range!

 

Use of the datalink to mark targets isn't that useful in this case, since the targets are moving. Sending your wingman coordinates of the place to hide, though, will work just fine.

 

 

 

It's after that that things actually get interesting. Say you're left with two rockets pods, the cannon, and some soft trucks. Do you make a run in to attack the trucks?

 

If there's any chance of MANPADS in the convoy, there's considerable risk in doing that. Go quickly and spew out flares, and you'll minimise the risk . . . but the target had better be REALLY important.

Better to slave the cannon to the Shkval and take it out at longer range.

Be the wrong side of a hill, so that if you are fired on with MANPADS, you can pop flares and descend into cover.

 

 

The really fun variant of this mission is when it's turned around and you're escorting the convoy against unknown threats . . . any suggestions for that one? ;)

[Avimimus]

That won't happen, Ka-50 is for low intensity combat ONLY. ;)

 

Yeah, what's with that? Seriously, the Ka-50 was developed for an anti-tank helicopter role to be used in a major/apocalyptic land war. Just because it wasn't designed to go up against heavy air defences doesn't mean it is designed only for low intensity combat (I doubt Apache crews really train for taking out entire AD battalions without heavy SEAD support - they'd have to be crazy to do so). In other words if the Ka-50 (and Ka-50Sh) were designed for low intensity conflicts then so was the Apache.

 

Of course, the Ka-50 is marketed as an ideal helicopter for such a role. There is a simple reason for this: It is the only role for which there is currently a market.

 

I would like to see some screenshots of a group of 12-20 Kamovs catching a Tank Battalion while it is relatively exposed. Of course, the helicopters should be preceded by a SEAD strike to take out enemy radars (and radar-sams) and to cause confusion. Imagine the fire power of approximately 10 Vikhr's every five seconds from 7km...

[Rhino4]

Okay. I'm going to go ahead and actually give this one a go....

 

Firstly, I will be to the north of the convoy's route. My wingman will be to the south in a position to engage after I've had time to check the situation. My first goal will be to get eyes on target and determine the AA threat, and the positioning of the convoy. Once established, I will move to position two and wait for the convoy to appear in my new kill zone. I will then engage targets of opportunity from the rear and side aspects with AA defenses being my first priority. Once AA is believed to be neutralized I will order the wingman to attack and follow up myself with guns and strafing rocket attacks in the second kill zone. Exposure time will be minimized and still allow precision delivery of munitions.

 

yellow = planned movement areas (I can move anywhere I need to within the yellow box to maintain sight of the convoy and engage with weapons yet still remain close to cover)

blue = area of observation

red = kill zone boxes one and two

 

First sighting at 6k. First engagement between 5k and 7k. Second engagement between 5k and 0k.

 

I'm interested to find out what the beta team thinks. (What would GGTharos do?)

[AlphaOneSix]

I like your plan for the most part. I think the only possible problem with it is the fact that the convoy is hauling ass (relatively speaking). At 50kph, each vehicle will be in your primary kill zone for less than two minutes, so you'll have to be very quick, and even then you will only be able to take out one or two (maybe three tops) vehicles before the convoy is out of your first kill zone. Also, if the convoy keeps its speed up, they will be almost out of your second kill zone before you can move to your second battle position.

 

Speaking of speed, I can't see how it would be possible to engage with MANPADS from the back of a truck moving at 50kph, so I would discount them as a threat unless a truck stops, at which point it immediately becomes the primary MANPAD threat. Stopping also give you more time to shoot them, so it may be more prudent for them to just keep on trucking. Speaking of which, if they are smart, they could dismount after they exit your first kill box and try to set you up for an ambush as you move to your second position.

 

I think the best bet would be to use your observatin box to determine the position of the AA vehicles (not MANPADS), and then use that info to make sure that those are the vehicles you target for your first killbox. You should be able to knock off the Shilka and maybe 1 or 2 APC's. If there is no Shilka, then you could take out 2 or 3 APC's (by my guess, anyway). If any vehicles stop, they should immediately become a priority as they may be dropping off a MANPAD. And if they do stop, I'd immediately call in the wingman to start blasting from the other direction. If they continue on, then you may have trouble beating them to the second kill zone, so if your wingman wasn't already engaged, he should be lying in wait ready to start taking out vehicles as soon as they roll into the second kill zone, hopefully getting them to stop or slow down to allow you to catch up and lend a hand mopping up.

 

At 50kph, the convoy will move along the entire shown route in only 12 minutes.

[Rhino4]

As you can see, I've already thought of that. :thumbup:

My first goal will be to get eyes on target and determine the AA threat, and the positioning of the convoy. Once established, I will move to position two and wait for the convoy to appear in my new kill zone. I will then engage targets of opportunity from the rear and side aspects with AA defenses being my first priority.

 

Note that the first killboz is aprox' 1k long. As I said above, my priorities for the first killzone are AA threats (I will use my "eyes on target" box to find their position in the convoy). Traveling at 50k over a 1k killbox, I will have plenty of time to engage the one or two AA threats that I've already spotted. Once those are down I can follow the convoy from behind if needed once they are through my second killzone and continue the engagement if I deem it prudent.

[Yellonet]

@Rhino4

 

That was a pretty advanced plan... nice!

 

People actually gave this some thought :)

 

Still waiting for a more serious scenario though ;)

 

AlphaOneSix, perhaps you want to design a challenge for the community?

Edited July 24, 2008 by Yellonet

[ThunderChief]

24 Vikhr would be enough. However, you only get 12 :D

 

+ 12 for my wingman ;)

[Canada]

24 Vikhr would be enough. However, you only get 12 :D

 

Why 12 ? Can't we put a Vikhr pod on each 4 mounts, for a total of 16 Vikhr ?

[Peyoteros]

Why 12 ? Can't we put a Vikhr pod on each 4 mounts, for a total of 16 Vikhr ?

 

nope :smilewink:

[AlphaOneSix]

AlphaOneSix, perhaps you want to design a challenge for the community?

 

I'm not sure I'm very good at that. Although if I can get enough spare time (unlikely considering my current status) I'd like to give it a shot.

 

Maybe something like the Kobayashi Maru exercise? ;)

[Yellonet]

I'm not sure I'm very good at that. Although if I can get enough spare time (unlikely considering my current status) I'd like to give it a shot.

 

Maybe something like the Kobayashi Maru exercise? ;)

Haha... yeah that would be great :D

[RedTiger]

I have a problem with the scenario you've given us. That map there is just that, a "map". Its a rather claustrophobic one too. By thinking in terms of that map, I think you're going to throw out your biggest advantages over the enemy; mobility and speed. You can go places the convoy can't and 50km is nothing compared to what you're packing!

 

I wouldn't want to think of this in terms of an immobile ambush if I didn't have to. It'd be nice to know what the terrain and threats were in a larger area so that you can use your speed and mobility to attrit that convoy with multiple ambushes effectively with as few losses as possible. A mobile "defense in depth", if you will with a minimum of exposure and an attack from at least two directions at once.. Maybe thats not possible here, but I would think you'd want to know.