Another F-15 tactics question ...

[Kula66]

Eagle drivers,

You are at 40k+', detect a 29 at 20k', fire an AMRAAM at about 20miles, just outside NEZ, he launches a 77 at you 5 seconds later ... problem is at 40k' and 300knts HUD speed you have so little manouverability and take so long to turn you get hit, while he at 20k' is more easily able to turn and run. He escapes ...

 

Whats the answer? You can't fly between 25k and 40k ... you leave a contrail - everyone can see you. So do you fly at 20ish and get better turning OR at 40k and hopefully get a longer reach? Or is this one of those things that isn't modelled well enough to give you the advantage it should?

 

Or do you hide in the weeds?

 

What happens in RL?

Is the Eagle really this sluggish at 40k'?

 

Thanks,

James

[Kenan]

Every plane is sluggish at 40,000 feet...

[GGTharos]

Don't wait till 20. Fire at 30, then at 25, start an A-Pole, if he gets closer (like 20nm) dive through contrails to more maneuverale territory. Most importantly, don't panic.

[S77th-GOYA]

Don't fly at 300 knots. Fly faster and you'll be able to maneuver better. Also, don't worry so much about contrails. Bandits have radar too, you know. Try doing a split-S after firing the kill shot.

[Kula66]

Don't fly at 300 knots. Fly faster and you'll be able to maneuver better. Also, don't worry so much about contrails. Bandits have radar too, you know. Try doing a split-S after firing the kill shot.

 

Thanks for the comments gents,

Flying faster than 300kts at 40k'+ takes ages to gather speed ... Contrails seem to me the biggest giveaway out ... its like writting I AM HERE all over the sky!! After firing I usually turn 30-40degs away ... it works against most opponents, but every now and then you meet a real demo (usually in a 29!)

 

Guess I need more practise!

 

James

[GGTharos]

You just have to be very agressive against MiGs.

 

Firstly, once you fire on one, dive - if he turns to dodge your weapon after all his won't lose lock like a sue's.

 

So dive where you can maneuver, force the 77 to burn speed (make sure you pick some up yourself FIRST so you're not just hanging there...a steep dive at ab will do) ... and then turn around and shoot him AGAIN.

 

Fangs and claws all out.

 

If he doesn't get it, repeat until he either goes down in flames or runs crying to mommy.

 

Most importantly, you need a VERY STEADY HAND to make sure thtat you complete your maneuvers smoothly, without stalling or panic.

[Kula66]

At 40k', if you roll 180, then pull back and dive on full AB ... you don't seem to accelerate very quickly ... I did try this. This what I mean by sluggish, I would have thought gravity PLUS a few 10s of 1000s pounds of thrust and you would scream down!

 

Aggression is the name of the game ... Iif you don't stay offensive ... you die!

 

James

[GGTharos]

At that altitude actually your thrust is severely reduced, and thisis part of the problem. So the frst thing you do after launch if youw ant to get to happier territory is to start your A-Pole with an oblique turn, ie. both turning away from your opponent -and- diving. If you do the turn smoothly and slowly you'll at least maintain speed if not accelerate.

 

Practice it in the ME, you'll see what I mean.

 

Undoubtedly, a turkey shoot at high-high at close ranges or someone shooting you up from lower but close-up, you're in trouble ... USE CHAFF!

Lots of it. You made a mistake.

[S77th-GOYA]

Nobody gets points for landing with a 3/4 full fuel tank. Unless the distance you have to fly demands it, stay in AB the whole way. Typically, I only come out of AB just before attack. I do this to slow to maneuvering speed. If you're gonna fly at 40k, definately stay in AB the whole way up. You won't have to worry about slow acceleration when you're already going 600 knots.

[GGTharos]

There's no point in staying in AB UNLESS you're not getting the thrust required to stay up ... like at 40K. Going to AB anywhere else unless you're fighting = greater exposure to EOS, and less loitering time to help your buddies with, especially on longer-ranged missions.

 

Of course, if you're playing solo things change.

[S77th-GOYA]

I don't loiter, I attack until fuel/AMRAAMs tells me to go home. Usually, it's AMRAAMs. And I don't spam them. I also don't drop tanks going into initial engagement. Most times it's not necessary.

[Nomad]

there is only one really good tactic when you see a MiG or Sue, and it can be explained with one word: EJECT! :twisted: :D

[GGTharos]

Yes. THey should eject ... after all they always take my AMRAAMs up the tailpipe. Or in the face. :twisted:

[Nomad]

and so do you =) hehheh

[GGTharos]

No, I always take'em in the wing. It's liek there's a missile magnet there I swear. Always the right wing.

[Ice]

you could fire at 15miles no problem, then split-s away

 

or fire a "Mad-Dog" at 15miles straight and level, then split-s

 

or start a decent so at 30k 10miles then fire and split S to out run the enemies missile.

[169th_Jaws]

Well I'll know that if I ever engage you GGTharos and lose contact there's a good chance you're gonna pop up to my right :wink:

[Kula66]

you could fire at 15miles no problem.

I would have thought that if you'd let get to 15miles, then you'd made a mistake! If you fire at 15, then with AAM flight time, they are getting very close .... by TTI.

 

Also, if you are 20k' above them then you start to get problems with them entering your blind spot ... if they get to 10, then its time to dive into them ... but now its a more even contest and that is you not what you want!

 

Also, you guys suggest that contrails can be ignored ... the biggest problem in ACM is finding your opponent .... and contrails make that easy!

 

James

[Cherokee]

All this talk reminds me of the Chimera Rising campaign. I have tried several different tactics to complete the first mission and can't get through the Mig 31's and the wall of 77's. Someone please! Play this mission and record a track or post some tactic solutions. I found the campaign on the Ubi forum, a quick search should work.

 

Thanks.

[GGTharos]

Well I'll know that if I ever engage you GGTharos and lose contact there's a good chance you're gonna pop up to my right :wink:

 

Hehe. ;)

[Kula66]

Of course the other problem with flying high in your Eagle with your radar on ... you attract bogies like flies on s..t! So you usually end up 1 v 2 or 3 and while you are fencing with one enemy, another gets a shot off!

 

Ho hum, if I wanted it easy I'd play ...

 

James

[Ice]

you could fire at 15miles no problem.

I would have thought that if you'd let get to 15miles, then you'd made a mistake! If you fire at 15, then with AAM flight time, they are getting very close .... by TTI.

 

Also, if you are 20k' above them then you start to get problems with them entering your blind spot ... if they get to 10, then its time to dive into them ... but now its a more even contest and that is you not what you want!

 

Also, you guys suggest that contrails can be ignored ... the biggest problem in ACM is finding your opponent .... and contrails make that easy!

 

James

 

Trust me. I know what im talking about. all 169th have been trained in this manner and you only need to see our scores to know it works :wink:

[Kula66]

I guess the trick is dodging the return shot ... you fire at 15miles, he fires a 77 at 10 ... you both die unless you dodge the shot. Thats something I need to work on ... I'll have to keep an eye out for you guys on line ... I know you have some real demons in Gunzo!

 

James

[GGTharos]

They're just outrunning the missiles ... it's entirely possible to do better.

[Skarp]

I really have few troubles flying against migs. just fly below the contrails or they will sneak up on you and slap you. if you fail to hit them hit the deck and turn it into a dogfight 8)